AI Is Changing Commercial Real Estate Faster Than You Think

Business opportunities help leaders innovate, grow revenue, attract talent, and scale sustainably. When pursued strategically, they build resilience, sharpen competitive advantage, and drive long-term success.

In this episode, I had a discussion with Forth Heffner. His path to business and coaching began in the wine and marketing industries before joining the family business in 2008 as part of a succession plan. Working alongside his father and brother, he helped grow the company sevenfold, implemented a leadership program, and successfully sold his majority stake. This experience led him to his true calling as a C-Suite Coach, where he now drives radical scale for commercial real estate leadership teams. Forth is dedicated to delivering top-tier coaching experiences that fuel growth and performance.

https://heffneriv.com/

Chapters

00:00 Introductions
03:33 Introduction to Commercial Real Estate Consulting
06:35 Understanding Cash Flow and Asset Management
09:30 The Importance of Long-Term Leases
12:40 Market Trends in the Carolinas
15:36 Leadership Challenges in Commercial Real Estate
18:27 The Role of Integrity and Work Ethic in Leadership
21:30 Building Legacy Through Real Estate Development
24:27 The Charm of Old Buildings
24:44 Technology's Impact on Real Estate
26:19 Global Events and Their Influence on Real Estate
28:04 Grocery Prices and Market Dynamics
29:14 Forth's Journey into Real Estate
31:45 Diverse Business Ventures
34:25 Innovative Drone Delivery Services
37:49 The Importance of People in Business
40:37 Challenges in Talent Acquisition
42:01 Connecting with Forth Heffner

Transcript

Introductions

SPEAKER_01 0:00

When I got into coaching, I didn't have an industry niche. I wasn't looking, I wasn't seeking commercial real estate. Now, if I'm being candid, I grew up in a family landscaping business my dad owned. And, you know, our clients were commercial real estate um uh companies. And so I was always really impressed by them. They were always really intelligent, very cerebral, very uh analytical. And, you know, in a way, I wanted to, you know, be more like them. So what I helped them with, I helped their leadership teams just setting a clear vision for the for the future. Um, you know, one client I've got, you know, when we started out, they were a third generation company, they had zero development deals on the table or even in the pipeline. And we just determined that we wanted to complete 50 projects in the first 10 years. That was five years ago, and they've already surpassed that. But you know, they went from zero dollars in development pipeline, and they're at between 350 to 400 million right now just for this year. And so, and they'll continue to compound that. And so those are the outcomes that my clients get. But the inputs are that, you know, we all get in a room uh regularly and on a certain cadence, and we solve problems and we hold each other accountable and we say the things that need to be said and we set a clear vision. You know, as a leader, you know, you don't get to just do the trade, you don't get to just do the work. You've got to lead people, you've got to make sure things are funded, projects are funded. Uh, and so all those things take compliment comprehensive planning, uh, they take good tax understanding. And again, this is not my expertise, but you know, they've got to make sure they've got the right people in the right place that have those skills, whether it be third party or in-house. Uh, and that's a that's an evolution. It's and it lasts forever because as soon as you think you've got it all together, you've got the right plan, the right people in place to to uh achieve that, you know, people are human and and things change and you've got to adapt to that. Circumstances change, especially in that environment. You know, a uh 25 basis point uh rate change in their work in their world changes a lot of things. And so you've got to be you've got to be disciplined, focused, and also flexible and and in a leadership position in that world. One of the things I had to learn was when I got into this coaching world is that you know clients come and go, and we can have a great relationship, but circumstances change sometimes, and you you have to always be uh you know willing to adapt to that, but also understand that that you can't control everything. And I think that's true in their world too, where there are just going to be certain uncontrollables that you need to be prepared for and you need to have a backup plan and be able to pivot and go to where uh you know the best place for your capital, your time is.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

Hi there, welcome to Business Leadership Podcast. In this episode, I had a discussion with the Forth Hafner. A Forth's path to business and coaching began in the wine and marketing industries before joining the family business in 2008 as a part of Succession Plan. Working alongside his father and a brother, he helped grow the company Sevenfold, implemented a leadership program, and successfully sold his majority stake. This experience led him to his true calling as a C-suite coach, where he now drives radical scale for commercial real estate leadership teams. Forth is dedicated to delivering top-tier coaching experiences that fuel growth and performance. If you're finding a value out of this discussion, don't forget to like, share, subscribe to our channel, and don't forget to send us your feedback. And your feedback is very important to us. Allow us to focus on our right discussions to help you grow and scale your business. Thank you again for your time. Please welcome Forth Hafner.

Introduction to Commercial Real Estate Consulting

SPEAKER_00 3:33

I guess welcome to Business Leadership Podcast. Today we're guest is uh Forth Hafner. Uh Forth, you've been helping uh working with a lot of business leaders, helping them in many different areas. So I'm looking forward to learning from you, looking forward to a discussion. Thank you so much for time today.

SPEAKER_01 3:45

Yeah, thanks for having me, Kermit.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

Okay. So walk us through, you know, you work with a lot of business leaders uh, you know, on many different levels. So, how do you how do you work with them and how do you help them out?

SPEAKER_01 3:56

Almost uh exclusively my clients are commercial real estate, mostly developers, some just in the brokerage andor a third-party area. Um, there's so many different facets of of that industry, but I work with their leadership teams and I cannot teach someone how to sell better than they do, maybe a little bit of sales, but I can't teach anybody how to develop better. I cannot, I'm not a consultant. I don't know how to help them do their job better. I just I just understand how to help them get everybody aligned around the same purpose, same vision, speaking the same language, codifying around that.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

So, how does a commercial real estate come in in that area? I, you know, from a from a business standpoint, you know, definitely everybody's trying to grow their companies, they're kind of build their, you know, with the cash flows. How does that real estate come in and fit into the portfolio?

SPEAKER_01 4:42

Yeah, so there's so many, like many other businesses, there's so many different verticals within commercial real estate. And every one of those has uh an exceptional amount of complexities in it, uh, from the construction side, from the site selection, from capital, you know, capital fundraising, things like that. And so, you know, if you are trying to be all things to all people, a mile wide and an inch deep, you're really gonna struggle, just like in any other business, because they're just like anybody else. And so uh it's a it there's a lot of opportunities in that arena to help them improve, get everything on the same uh on the same track, you know, help them niche the right way, get the right people in the right seats, a lot of those proverbial cliches as well. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

Got it. So does that so what helps that you know, come you know, to tie that with the commercial real estate uh forth? How does that help? Like it is, does it improve a cash flow? Like, what are some of the benefits that you know by going, you know, incorporating a commercial real estate with the with the business of people trying to build?

SPEAKER_01 5:42

Yeah, so it definitely helps with cash flow, but you know, the way that they measure most things, especially if they're long holders, is uh net asset value, and then individually, you know, every every asset's treated like its own business. And so they're looking for NOI on that and you know translated. That's pretty much profitability on each on each one. And then they all lead up to a uh management company that needs to be efficient, have good processes, give clients, especially third third parties, good results. There's a ton of reporting in that business, and so uh those things have to be tight because you're dealing with large large dollar values there. So, yeah, to your question, the outcomes are you know increased uh net asset value, growing NOI, and then obviously cash flow health comes from those.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

Yeah, because this it provides a lot the stability the business needs, I guess, ongoing basis, right? Because business could be up and down. But if you have a real dual set as a portfolio, that provides

Understanding Cash Flow and Asset Management

SPEAKER_00 6:35

that the solid foundation at the backbone, you know, for business to be operating.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

Yeah, and there's so many ways that you can move the needle on those assets. You know, let's say you have grocery anchor retail asset. There's so many ways that you can squeeze more NOI out of it. And a lot of that's gonna start with capital improvements, raising the quality of the experience for the tenants, things like that. But there are little levers everywhere that you can turn to help improve that NOI on that. And then you know, you're always evaluating that as an asset, and because it's a commercial asset, it's not as personal, it's a business asset. And so you're saying, hey, are there better, is there a better reallocation of of these funds, this capital, into a better asset? And so there's just always this kind of trading going back and forth. And and every developer, every asset holder is in a different place, and so they're looking for different characteristics, different qualities in a property. So there's always a great buyer, and there's always somebody else that another asset that that we could trade into that to improve our situation.

SPEAKER_00 7:31

Do you prefer any any different class in a uh in a commercial real estate? Is it multifamily homes or or the you know, shopping class, like a do you prefer one over another?

SPEAKER_01 7:40

I don't know that I have a preference. I have certainly grocery anchored retail and retail in general, I understand, more than the those other asset classes.

SPEAKER_00 7:50

So why is it why is the retail? What's what is what is the benefit for retail?

SPEAKER_01 7:54

It's pretty simple. I when I got into coaching, I didn't have an industry niche. I wasn't looking, I wasn't seeking commercial real estate. Now, if I'm being candid, I grew up in a family landscaping business my dad owned, and you know, our clients were commercial real estate companies. And so I was always really impressed by them. They were always really intelligent, very cerebral, very analytical. And, you know, I in a way I wanted to, you know, be more like them. And when I got into coaching, my first client was a commercial real estate company. Just coincidence, this was not had a prior relationship with the owner, and I reached out to him, and that's where that came from. And and so at that point, they were a third generation company and they had a lot of different assets, and they were in every different class you can imagine. And what we wanted to do is we wanted to niche into re grocery anchored retail. And so slowly over time, we traded out of their legacy assets, did 1031s on those, and got them into better assets and more streamlined, you know, uh class there because it was just it was just easier to get economies of scale. It was the same relationships because it's such a relational business that you you know you can't be all things to all people because they're all swimming in different lanes. And so we needed to get in one specific lane and just try to own the hell out of that. And and that's what uh my guys have done.

SPEAKER_00 9:12

So the yeah, one of the item I'm I'm thinking about is the the lease terms uh on on a on a the commercial, you know, the in the grocery anchors, probably the much longer terms than compared to any other area could be short, you know, any other retail could be shorter cycles, but but on a grocery side, maybe very, very 10 years, 20 years welcome at least agreements.

SPEAKER_01 9:29

Yeah,

The Importance of Long-Term Leases

SPEAKER_01 9:30

and and and again, I want to reiterate, I'm not an expert on commercial real estate. I am an expert on helping commercial real estate companies thrive. With that said, yes, there are a lot of advantages of grocery anchor because, you know, at the end of the day, you're getting that you know, you get that long lease there. It's a it's a good number. It's a it's a relationship, it's a partnership with them. You know, the expectation is that they'll sort of cover the nut and that everything else is going to be you know icing on the cake. But yeah, you're getting those longer-term leases on those big boxes, whereas with a smaller box, you know, 1,500 square feet or something like that, you can live in that three-year range or so.

SPEAKER_00 10:04

Got it. Is that a sort of area that that uh you work at the fort, or or uh is it uh or all over you know U.S. like what in any area?

SPEAKER_01 10:12

Yeah, my my focus is on the Carolinas, North and South Carolina. So I'm not actually sure where you are, Gormi, but you know, the southeast of United States is just on fire right now, especially with all the uncertainties you know worldwide. But we in North Carolina and South Carolina are really attractive states, and so there's a lot of wealth and capital moving here, and a lot of growth here. And so not only is this where I live and what I'm comfortable with and all my relationships are, but I'm lucky to be in an area right now that's that's really on the ascent.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

Yeah, we are just north of Torno, but it's uh in Canada. They're saying that the transaction is very slow. I I know that commercial real estate seems to be a lot of slowdown. Excuse me. Do you see a lot of traction in your market? How's your market uh look like?

SPEAKER_01 10:57

Yeah, we're like anybody else where we've got concerns about you know worldwide trends, national trends, but we also have, you know, as I mentioned, we have an understanding that you know we're in a unique situation here. So specifically I live in Pinehurst. I don't know if you're a golf fan or not, but it's a resort type area. And so we've got Raleigh, which is one of the most thriving MSAs in the in the country right now. We've got Charlotte, two hours from us west, yeah, Greenville at South Carolina, Charleston. There's just a lot of thriving markets around here, you know, a lot of population growth. And so we're pretty bullish on the future right now. Most of my clients are not, you know, they're not packing it in right now and holding capital. They're they're investing and and they're finding really good deals everywhere. A lot of people that want to form partnerships.

SPEAKER_00 11:43

Oh, yeah. I was speaking to somebody in Florida, their market is doing very well as well. You know, it looks like a similar kind of idea. Is government policy, what there was, you know, the the the government is pushing the policy. Are they helping? Is there some some hope from those policies? More help coming down the way, or or what are your thoughts on the policies?

SPEAKER_01 12:00

Yeah, I can't speak to the latter much. I probably should keep my finger to the pulse of the political environment a little bit more. I would say just historically, especially in North Carolina, we've always had pretty balanced government. You know, for example, we've got a Democrat governor and a Republican Congress. And so, you know, they're pretty balanced. And uh, we've got for the regulatory environment in North Carolina, it's pretty reasonable. You know, it's a big banking hub here. Charlotte's kind of the New York of the South. And so we've got a lot of banking uh activities down here. The other part of it is that, you know, the regulatory environment is uh specifically environmental, is is responsible, but it's not, you know, it's not over the top. It's it's reasonable and and can be worked with. In fact, you

Market Trends in the Carolinas

SPEAKER_01 12:40

know, we've got Brunswick County, which is about two hours southwest, or I'm sorry, southeast of here along the coast of North Carolina. It's one of the top ten fastest-growing counties in the country. And it was number one, I believe, four years ago. And so, you know, politically speaking, it's a really good environment to uh to be allocating capital into commercial real estate.

SPEAKER_00 12:58

So, what is the reason for the counting to be to to uh you know getting a lot of attraction?

SPEAKER_01 13:03

Uh that's a great question. Uh and any answer I have to that is gonna just be you know my opinion. It's it's on it's along the coast, and you know, that property is always desirable for second homes relocations, especially from the northeast United States. But there's a frankly, it was an I don't want to say it's an underdeveloped area, but there was a lot of you know raw dirt that was in a great position to be developed. There's good highway systems, there's municipalities just on the north and south of it. You've got thriving, small metropolis of Wilmington, North Carolina, north of it, and you've got Myrtle Beach to the south, which you know, those are two areas that have thrived for a long time, but they're because of their coastal constraints, they're starting to develop inland now. And so, you know, Brunswick is experiencing a lot of that overflow from that growth there.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

Nice, nice. Good stuff. So you you work with that you mentioned, you work with a lot of commercial companies that you do consultation for them and for on development side uh for it, or or or any of the areas you provide consultation for?

SPEAKER_01 14:04

Yeah, so what I helped them with, I helped their leadership teams just setting a clear vision for the for the future. You know, one client I've got, you know, when we started out, they were a third generation company, they had zero development deals on the table or even in the pipeline. And we just determined that we wanted to complete 50 projects in the first 10 years. That was five years ago, and they've already surpassed that. But you know, they went from zero dollars in development pipeline, and they're at between 350 to 400 million right now just for this year. And so, and they'll continue to compound that. And so those are the outcomes that my clients get. But the inputs are that you know, we all get in a room regularly and on a certain cadence, and we solve problems and we hold each other accountable, and we say the things that need to be said, and we set a clear vision. So, you know, if I'm flying from LA to New York, you know, I've got a flight pattern because I started with where I am and where I want to go, and I built the pattern moving back from the end, moving backwards. And that's a lot of what we do. You know, these companies they have a lot of uh different moving parts in their business, and they can get chaotic just like any other business. And so we really want to go from chaos to clarity and not use that overuse cliche, but it's the truth. Uh, we we want to solve that chaos. We want to bring people in who want to be disciplined and work towards a shared vision and do it with the right people.

SPEAKER_00 15:24

So, where where do these leaders struggle? Is it is that on uh information, is it on knowledge, or is it an execution? What what do these some of the uh leaders struggle where you help them?

SPEAKER_01 15:32

It'd be execution because you know most of these people are really intelligent.

Leadership Challenges in Commercial Real Estate

SPEAKER_01 15:36

That's be that's how they got into this business because it's it's not for everybody and it's not easy. But it's the execution part because you know, as a leader, you know, you don't get to just do the trade, you don't get to just do the work. You've got to lead people, you've got to make sure things are funded, projects are funded. And so all those things take compliment comprehensive planning, they take good tax understanding. And again, this is not my expertise, but you know, they've got to make sure they've got the right people in the right place that have those skills, whether it be third party or in-house. And that's a that's an evolution. It's and it lasts forever because as soon as you think you've got it all together, you've got the right plan, the right people in place to to uh achieve that, you know, people are human and and things change and you've got to adapt to that. Circumstances change, especially in that environment. You know, a 25 basis point rate change in their work in their world changes a lot of things. And so you've got to be you've got to be disciplined, focused, and also flexible and in a leadership position in that world.

SPEAKER_00 16:36

Yeah, especially if the changes are so dramatic and so fast. I mean, how do you how do you you know we talk about change management? How do you how do you put a you know control that kind of change and and you have no control over it because the market controls it, you're simply gotta respond to it.

SPEAKER_01 16:50

Yeah, you want to control as much as you can. You know, if you're a third party exclusively, you know, you've got you're giving up a lot of power. But you know, if you're a developer that's you know holds holds assets a long time, you know, using your same cat your your own capital or you're using you know institutional capital or something like that, you know, you're gonna have a little bit more power to control the future and to to make moves. And so it's just having an understanding. You know, I I remember my old life. I it would really bother me when I lost a client. And this was a commercial landscaping business. So this was you know, it wasn't complex or anything like that. But one of the things I had to learn was when I got into this coaching world is that you know, clients come and go, and we can have a great relationship, but circumstances change sometimes, and you you have to always be uh you know willing to adapt to that, but also understand that that you can't control everything. And I think that's true in their world too, where there are just going to be certain uncontrollables that you need to be prepared for and you need to have a backup plan and be able to pivot and go to where you know the best place for your capital, your time is.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

Yeah, but I think the only difference could be that they they're dealing with a much bigger transaction in terms of dollar value, right? So you you know, when you have a transactional business, you're dealing with the small, small items, but in their case, one big transaction could make and break a lot of stuff they're working on.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

That's true. And you know, you look at a lot of these like master plan communities, and usually it's the uh second or third owner that uh you know really brings it to or to fruition or at least gets close to that finish line. It's the it's the first guy through the wall that gets bloodied and bankrupt. So it's very true.

The Role of Integrity and Work Ethic in Leadership

SPEAKER_01 18:27

Now, I with that said, I I'll I'll put it this way. As I've worked with different groups, I've learned that you know, we were when my dad's company was really small, and you know, a $1,500 you know weekly payroll was was a huge payroll and a lot to a lot to swallow if cash flow is tight. And so, you know, a $150,000 payroll feels the same way as to excuse me, to them as it does to that little guy. So it's all relative, but you you're not wrong.

unknown 18:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

So when you you work with a lot of business uh ill leaders or or people in this places that where they gotta you know execute and they got a lot of challenges. What are some of the items you look for when you meet somebody you know, just by meeting somebody in in a few minutes, you know the guy has a potential. You know, this team's gonna make it, or this team's gonna struggle. You know, you gotta help them with a lot of struggles, right? So, what are some of the signs you see that when you when you meet uh somebody uh the first time?

SPEAKER_01 19:19

So, you know, the table stakes are you know, high integrity. You know, what I'm looking for is most of my client leaders are are men, their fathers. You know, I'm 44, and usually these guys are in the same same age range, you know, late 30s, early 40s, multi-generational company. You know, their husbands, they're fathers. They're trying to they're trying to manage their personal aspirations with being great husbands, great parents, being involved with their kids, being mentally present at night or wherever, because we're ambitious people. And a lot of times these projects and these these opportunities and these issues are on our minds all the time. And so I'm looking for somebody that is not not does us anything wrong with the the with their ambition, but wants to to, I won't use the term balance because I don't think that exists, but wants the two to be complementary. And so you know, high integrity, honest. One of the things you'd hear me say a lot if you knew me is when you love somebody, you tell them the truth. And these are the type of people that they're up front and honest and they want to do great, you know, wonderful things, community legacy changing things the right way. And so that's what I'm looking for there. But they've got to, they've got to have, for lack of a better term, some dog in them. There's they've got to be able to, you know, run through walls and and think that the impossible is possible. And so that's what I'm looking for because one, I'm kind of like that, and two, I get to live kind of vicariously through them.

SPEAKER_00 20:48

Yeah, yeah. You know, I know I notice that people who are in those positions, they're worried, very the work ethics are out of, you know, worry, very high. You know, these people they know how to grind, they know how to work it out. They don't need, you know, if the time comes that they have to put a time in, they will they'll be the first one to there and last one to lead because they got those work ethics, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:07

Yeah. And so, you know, that work ethic is and it's a wonderful, and it actually most of them don't know this, but they they challenge me, and I think it helps me be a better guide to them because you know their level's so high. I know I've got to keep mine high and keep elevating it as as well. You know, but again, it goes back to wanting to do to be really

Building Legacy Through Real Estate Development

SPEAKER_01 21:30

good in both aspects of their life. You know, first of all, they're personal, and then being great leaders, great professionals, and doing something great like that leaves the mark. Because you know, Gourmet, one thing that sort of epiphany I had, I don't know, a couple of years ago was that you know, most of us will not be remembered to pass 50, 60, 70 years, 100 years definitely. Like I don't know my great great grandfather's name or anything like that. I don't know anything about him. But you know, the things we leave behind can do that. And some of these assets. That these clients are dealing with or developing, they can last 100 years and be part of the fabric of a community and leave a real legacy. And that's really fun and attractive to people that have the drive to do that.

SPEAKER_00 22:16

So not only they're trying to build something for the family, but they're building something they're going to leave behind with the next few generations to enjoy and and to be there.

SPEAKER_01 22:24

Yeah, and that makes you that makes you look at things differently. That makes you approach a development or an asset differently because it's not just a cash grab, it's not just a flip most of the time. But those legacy assets, you know, they last for, you know, not forever, but they last for a long time. And that's what you become remembered by, at least professionally.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

Yeah, much longer than that. I remember we go in downtown sometimes. There's buildings that are for over 100 years old or 150 years old. Sometimes you see the name outside the building, the guy who built it, you know, you look at it, wonder what kind of person, you know, would that be who built this kind of building, right? So to your point, yeah, you you remember that, you know, because the buildings around much they last much longer than humans do.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

Yeah, the building I'm in right now is 107 years old, I believe. It's right. I'm right on the main through fair in the downtown area. And you know, the there's two retail stores downstairs, and I have the ops upstairs. And they when they remodeled the building, the old, you know, what do you call it, in embedded or whatever, is an old bank. And so you can see all the old in the concrete, the uh you know, where the name of the original occupier is carved in the in the stone. That's really neat to go back and study that. But also, you know, these old buildings they got old nooks and crannies, and they're almost like little treasure chests of discovery. And they just tell a story. And so to your point, it's it's just it's just really neat to be involved with.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

Technology is changing in many different industries. Uh, and any impact that technology is making in this industry as well, uh Ford, is it anything changing in the landscape of the commercial real estate or development?

SPEAKER_01 23:59

Yeah, everything is obviously it's about AI, and what people are looking for is, you know, at the end of the day, commercial real estate and commercial real estate developer, you know, it's finance first. Real estate's the vehicle, but these are finance people. And so they're looking for a way to get better, better analytics, better statistical knowledge, and then better speed out of out of things. And so, like anything else with the technological technological revolution and especially AI, it's very undetermined right now. People, a lot of

The Charm of Old Buildings

SPEAKER_01 24:27

people are taking shots at something they think might work, or it's temporarily, you know, an economy of scale, if you will. But a lot going on, but nothing's really winning the race right now. And it's it's uh it's very fluid.

SPEAKER_00 24:40

Is there potential that technology can provide the speed that real state needs to

Technology's Impact on Real Estate

SPEAKER_00 24:44

get the projects done?

SPEAKER_01 24:46

Definitely the potential's there. We're not there yet. I don't know how long it'll take, but you know, with AI, things change overnight sometimes. So who knows who's gonna have that next update or that next version that comes out and solves that problem. I know the existing sort of legacy you know embedded technologies that are out there right now, they're fine. Fine. Their AI plugins are not they're not the the way of the future, right, as they stand right now. So sort of from a periphery, that's what I'm seeing. Very interesting.

SPEAKER_00 25:19

How about the the you know, what's going on around the world, all those you know, wars going on around is that making any impact on on this industry?

SPEAKER_01 25:26

Yeah, definitely everybody's sitting around monitoring what's going on. Obviously, energy prices are are higher and they're affecting, you know, they impact everything else. So I wouldn't say that any deals are getting killed right now, but people are watching with you know sharp eye on the things like that. Gas prices part of it, I guess? Yeah, because you know, uh before you know, up until the last I don't want to say up until now, but in the recent past, there's been a lot of growth in that, you know, the convenience store sector, gas, you know, fueling station sector. And so that's been I I can't say, you know, most of my clients aren't doing a ton of that work, so I can't say right now what's going on behind closed doors with that, but certainly there's some evaluation going on, I would assume.

SPEAKER_00 26:10

Part of that where we are forth is uh grocery prices, where like the price of the food and all this stuff is always is making an impact because we we only have about three or four big uh grocery

Global Events and Their Influence on Real Estate

SPEAKER_00 26:19

chains in in Canada. How's that impacting the the places you know, the grocery chains uh you're working with or the real shirt you're working with?

SPEAKER_01 26:26

Yeah, that's a good question. You know, I think that a lot of that's probably this is just my opinion again, but I think that's a lot of a lot of that's baked in. You know, my wife does our grocery shopping and she really enjoys that, you know, but she talks every once in a while about you know, X is double what it was four or five years ago. And so, you know, I think a lot of that is baked in because it's just been progressively increasing over the last four or five years, certainly since COVID and you know, with the inflation numbers and things like that. So that's that's baked in at this point and assumed.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

Is is that to the point where these these aggressive chains are consolidating or trying to deal with the prices? Because we see that a lot in happening in Canada, where the big chains are just trying to consolidate and and trying to merge with each other, trying to compete, you know, deal with those prices.

SPEAKER_01 27:10

Yeah, there's some of that going on, and I and I don't profess to know a ton of detail about that. I know that, you know, Kroger and Terrasita, which is a big grocer, a more higher-end one around here. I know that I think there was a merger between Albertsons and maybe Safeway or something like that out west. And I don't know if that ever went through. So, you know, that's more just you know, I've heard rumors about that. I wouldn't say there's a ton of that around here. The grocery stores are doing pretty well here. Publix is growing, you know, they're out of Florida, but they're in, you know, Florida, North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia. I think they're going into Kentucky, Tennessee, and then I've heard Texas as well. So they're growing wildly. You know, they're a high credit uh grocery chain, and so everybody's lining up to work with them, and they're great to work with too. So I'm not seeing a ton of consolidation here in our region, but I'm certainly aware that it's it's out there nationally.

SPEAKER_00 27:59

Interesting. So let's talk about your journey for it. How do you got involved in the real estate? In

Grocery Prices and Market Dynamics

SPEAKER_00 28:04

you know, it's uh it's an interesting field that you've been, you know, you've been helping these business leaders. So how do you got so expert on this and how do you got involved?

SPEAKER_01 28:11

Yeah, well, I'm not an expert, but I, you know, I have I'm around them a lot. So I have a lot of I can say a lot of things that make me sound smart that probably, you know, I'm not right about. But I, you know, I got into, I grew up in sort of a real estate family. My dad owned a landscaping business. He had a nice, successful small business for our family. My my mother was involved in residential real estate as a as a child, and she did pretty well with that. And interestingly enough, there used to be a VA foreclosure loophole that you could utilize back in the 80s and 90s. They've closed since closed that. My parents accumulated a decent amount of residential rental real estate in the 90s and uh early 2000s because they could assume VA foreclosures and those were lower rates, and I don't believe they required anything down. And I don't I don't claim to fully know the ins and outs of that program, but that's how our family got into real estate. And so I would spend weekends and summers, you know, cleaning out houses or painting, or certainly doing lawn maintenance as well. But I learned the ins and

Forth's Journey into Real Estate

SPEAKER_01 29:14

outs of that. Now, I never had much connection with commercial real estate other than working for my dad and working for property management companies and and working on these big commercial assets. But that's really my real estate journey and and as far as my life goes.

SPEAKER_00 29:28

Yeah, when you see that happening at home, you know, definitely you showing trust. You know, if I'm running a technology company, my son's always talking about technology. I mean, I think what happens in a family as a kid is we all, you know, showing trust and eventually it's it's uh you know, it's it's a blessing that that the kids get involved in a similar business, and otherwise you get they you gotta figure out the own path, right?

SPEAKER_01 29:47

Yeah, and I have little, I have little kids too. I my kids are 10, 7, and 4. And you know, I I've always heard over and over again that your kids model your behavior. And so I think that's one of the blessings of being a little bit older with uh like I am with small kids like that. But you know, whether I knew it or not growing up, my parents were modeling a certain behavior, and to some degree I've gone down a similar adjacent path, if you will.

SPEAKER_00 30:12

Got it. So what is uh coming, you know, what's uh what kind of project uh you know coming down a pipe? Are you working on a similar kind of project, or are you got some other stuff in a pipeline for 2026 rest of the year?

SPEAKER_01 30:23

I have four other businesses. So, you know, I take on fewer clients and a lot of people that do what I do because one, I want to have a deeper relationship throughout the organization. And number two, I like having other things I do. So one of our companies is we do a lot of master planning. And so we plan, you know, master planning for developments, land planning, entitlements, zoning, things like that. So, you know, if you had if you want to develop you know a thousand home, you know, golf club site, you would come to us. We would be the first person you'd come to to get you know max density and uh great views and layouts and things like that. Another one of our companies is we do high-end home design. So we're not architects, but we do uh we design homes that are generally about two million and up. And so that's a lot of fun. Now, I don't work in those in the day-to-days, I'm just a part of the leadership team. And you know, I spend some some time doing some business development over there. And then my wife and I own a company that does artificial turf and mostly uh specifically putting greens, you know, backyard putting greens. Um and then finally I own a company that this is a new company and it's pre-revenue, but we deliver you know food and beverage on the golf course by drone. So, you know, it's like DoorDash you'd order from your app and we'd bring it by drone. Now, part of the reason that's pre-revenue right now is the regulatory environment with drones and the FAA and things

Diverse Business Ventures

SPEAKER_01 31:45

like that. So we're working through some of those issues right now, and there is some movement in that area, but yeah, that's what I do with my time. I I spend a lot of it, obviously coaching commercial real estate companies, but I spend spend in other these other areas, and I have great partners that run the day-to-day of those. And so I get to be on kind of the outside, do the relationship part of it and the ideation and vision work. And so that's really nice and fun for me.

SPEAKER_00 32:08

That's such a great concept, uh, you know, delivering uh beverages to the people golfing. I mean, can you imagine the walk you have to do, go back and forth? And you know, how many times we go there and we forget about something, you know, oh, I forgot my drinks to bring it with me, or I forgot something. You know, just getting a service where you are, where you're golfing. I mean, that's such a great service.

SPEAKER_01 32:27

Yeah, and it's a you know, just from a business standpoint, it's a it's it's a captive audience. And so you've got a captive audience for four or five hours, and they need, you know, more teas, which generally most clubs give teas away, but you still need them. And you're you know, you might be a mile from the clubhouse. You need golf balls, you know, you want some water, beer, hot dogs, things like that. And once we can get past the regulatory barriers, we'll be able to deliver drone service within, depending on where you are in the course, five, six minutes from the time that you put press send from your app.

SPEAKER_00 32:58

Got it. So, what is the regulatory terms that they're not allowed at the moment, or are they simply just uh the distances? What what what's what's blocking all the just city bylaws?

SPEAKER_01 33:07

Yeah, that's part of it. A lot of it is beyond visual line of sight or B los, as they call it. And so ours are autonomous. And so essentially, once you you know, you order it from your app, it goes through our autonomous system. That you know, the drone simply just has to be loaded. There's a couple safety checks on that, and then it's it's sent to the consumer. Now, what we have existing in the United States is uh what's called a Part 107 license, which is a commercial, you know, drone pilot license. And so we have that, but you can't do beyond line of sight. And so, you know, we're not out west where you've got you know, you know, very open space and you can see the that drone from afar away. And so legally, we can't have those outside of our our our view, our eyesight. And so we're working through that. There is regulation on it's either on the House floor or the Senate floor in DC for part 108, is what it's called, that is supposed to alleviate some of those stuff because there is a drive in the United States for uh robotics and drone exploits uh work uh commercially and as it applies to military application. And then finally, there's a part 135, which is essentially a commercial airline or you know, air carrier license, which I believe Amazon has it, Zipline has it, maybe Walmart. And that would be a great license, which would get us where we need to be right or

Innovative Drone Delivery Services

SPEAKER_01 34:25

we want to be right now, but it's a very expensive and timely license to gain. We're only about a year in, and so we've not invested that capital or that time for the 135 yet because we're waiting on one to wait.

SPEAKER_00 34:37

Got it. But you got to work with whatever the facility they have on site, right? Whatever the whether it's a restaurant, whatever they have on a on-site facility, you gotta partner with them to deliver all those stuff for them, I guess. Right so service that are you adding to it.

SPEAKER_01 34:49

Yeah, and right now what we're working on, what what our entryway into the industry is going to be is getting our app done, and that's closed. And uh we got a lot of relationships with local clubs, and we are in Pioneers, so it's very golf-centric here. And and then a lot of golf groups we've spoken to and have built relationships with as well. And so essentially what we'll be able to do before the drones are approved is you know, we can use this app, we can drone a golf cart or your beverage cart. So we can make that autonomous. And or, you know, if you just want it to be an ordering system, the app to you know, the food and beverage, you know, clubhouse or whatever it might be, and then send somebody out, you know, case by case, you can do that as well. So that's that's what we're working on right now. It should be done in the next maybe six, eight weeks. Very interesting.

SPEAKER_00 35:36

People who are involved in a lot of businesses that like you are for Always talk to them. And and one thing they mentioned that the the business aspect, whether it's a drone business or or an artificial tub business or truck business, they they are very good with the people side of things. You know, uh, they spend more time, 90% of the time, dealing with the people instead of just uh, you know, whatever the line of business that is. Is that the case for you? And and what do you find? You know, do you find that's a more satisfying working with the people, or or that line of business uh is more satisfying when you when you're working with them?

SPEAKER_01 36:05

Yeah, 100%. I I just really enjoy people. You know, part of coaching is if you're any good at coaching, got a decent decent level of emotional intelligence, you can read people pretty well. I really enjoy interpersonal relationships. I love you know, you'd call it sales, business development, but I just like you know solving problems for people. And to me, that's what sales is, that's what business is, is that hey, you've got a problem, I've got a solution, we should get together and do business. It's mutually beneficial. I love that part of it, finding a connection with people. So I went to boarding school in high school, and I wouldn't say I was the most outgoing kid in the world until that point. I was 14 when I went, but you know, you get forced into that discomfort and you have to learn to navigate an environment that you don't know anything about. And the way that I did it was through, you know, personal relationships. You know, I really like getting to know people, you know, what their background is, what their interests are. I think, you know, our area we live in, it's very I wouldn't call it transient, but a lot of people aren't from here. We get a lot of retirees from the Northeast, and we also have Special Forces headquarters, United States Army is just you know just down the road from here. And so, you know, the most high-level people you can imagine in the United States military, they live here with their families. And so, you know, they're really well educated, they're from all over the country, all over, they've lived all over the world. They're they're just really interesting people with interesting backgrounds. And so it's really you know fruitful for me to be able to just get to know people and talk and learn about their experiences and their perspectives.

SPEAKER_00 37:37

Yeah, I was speaking to somebody who ran a construction company here, and over 1,100, 1200 employees I was talking to him. And he he claimed that 95% of his time does not spend on a business, spends on a mentoring people or helping

The Importance of People in Business

SPEAKER_00 37:49

their employees to guide them in the right direction, help them solve some of the problems, right? So I thought it was very high, but it they it's uh, you know, but that's how he approaches a business. 95% of time he's spending with the people, not with the business itself.

SPEAKER_01 38:01

Yeah, and that's how I coach my leadership teams is that we need that CEO. That CEO doesn't need to have their hands in the dirt, you know, they don't need to be in every single deal knowing every detail. We need them for two primary functions, right? I'll say three. One is helping set and enforce the vision. Two, you know, handling those big relationships with you know vendors, large clients, and you know, you know, upper level management or leadership. And then three is helping solve problems when crisis occur occurs, because it always does. And you know, we need that person to have a tight hold of the reins and keep us keep us on track of those moments.

SPEAKER_00 38:40

How's the talent pool where you at? Are you finding enough talent to uh do what you're trying to do with the multiple businesses?

SPEAKER_01 38:47

Yeah, it's tough. It's it's surprisingly tough here because you know, we're a small market, small, we're kind of a what do you call it, a micro micropolitan or something like that. And so it's tough to get people from Raleigh or Charlotte to move here until they come here. And so this is a great place to live. And and once you're here, you never want to leave. But talent, especially like in the accounting and finance areas, can be tough to recruit here. But the talent's right down the road, right at our fingertips. We just got to do continually do a better job attracting those people and showing them why our pace of life and our lifestyle is is really good.

SPEAKER_00 39:27

Yeah, that's but some of the perks they can enjoy when they come over there, right? But yeah, but I I can imagine that training cycle probably gets a little bit longer that you got to train them before you gotta work out of them if they if they're not close to you, close uh close by.

SPEAKER_01 39:39

Yeah, and and you know, uh a lot of people are getting away from remote work, and I I'm a big proponent of that, but those are still tools in the toolbox, you know, to be able to, you know, recruit people to to work with us that are you know have great talent. And so there's there's still some latitude to be able to do things like that. Very interesting.

SPEAKER_00 39:58

You know, there's so much to it to learn that we can go and you know talk forever. So, but I understand the time. Where can people find you? How can they connect with you? Fourth.

SPEAKER_01 40:06

Yeah, websites Hefneriv is in Virginia.com. You know, my name's very active on LinkedIn. That's probably about the only social I'm really active, but look me up, fourth F-O-R-TH, last name Hefner, H E F F N-E-R, and uh happy to uh interact.

SPEAKER_00 40:21

Yeah, I'm gonna include a link below the video as well. So people can click a button, they're gonna reach out to you. Any message you want to leave, people who are you know just looking, you know, either if they're in a commercial real estate business or developers, you know, anything they wanna you know, want to get some information or want to get some help, any message you want to leave for them?

Challenges in Talent Acquisition

SPEAKER_01 40:37

Pretty simple. If you're gonna go into business, you can be an entrepreneur, you just gotta be too stupid to quit.

SPEAKER_00 40:43

That's a good one. That's a great advice. Thank you so much for time, Forth. It was great talking to you. Enjoy our discussion. Thanks, great. See you, bud. Thank you. If you enjoyed this discussion, I'm I recommend to check one of this discussion on the top. Um, also don't forget to go back to that channel homepage. There's a playlist created just for you, whether you're looking for business discussion, technology discussion, or process discussion for business growth, all those categories are there, and I'm sure you will find something that you enjoy from those categories as well. So don't forget to send us your feedback, subscribe to this channel for any upcoming videos. Your feedback is very important to us, allow us to focus on the right discussion to deliver value for you on a weekly basis. So enjoy until next time. Thank you for your time.