Why Your Employees Keep Making the Same Mistakes

Strategic leadership development and coaching build resilient teams, sharpen decision-making, and fuel innovation—driving higher engagement, retention, and productivity. The result: scalable operations, sustainable revenue growth, and a lasting competitive edge.

In this episode, I sit down with Ron Reich, a seasoned leadership and management development expert and coach with 28 years of experience across diverse industries. A master facilitator, Ron designs highly interactive learning experiences that drive engagement, accountability, and measurable performance improvement. A dedicated lifelong learner, he constantly tracks the latest research and leadership frameworks—and translates them into practical tools and strategies leaders can apply immediately in their organizations.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/ron-reich-7809829/

00:00 Intro & Welcome
02:30 Common Leadership Challenge: Leaders Skip Training
04:50 Why Leaders Resist Training (Ego & Time)
06:50 Benefits of Full-Team Training & Culture
08:50 Ron's Leadership & Management Development Work
12:00 Discipline & Incremental Training Impact
20:00 Measuring Training Success & ROI
35:00 Tying Training to Performance & Rewards
39:40 How to Connect with Ron Reich
41:00 Final Advice: Start with "The Advantage" Book

Transcript

Intro & Welcome

SPEAKER_00 0:00

One of the biggest challenges that I've been coming across with the business owners is that they they believe their staff needs training and they don't. How can you expect there to be any consistency unless everybody organizationally has gone through the training itself? Organizations say to me quite often, oh, we're very unique. You know, what we do, you know, we're very niche-oriented, and you know, whatever it might be, all these things, and say, yes, and I agree with that. And I do. I also tell people people are people. You're still gonna have the same issues, you're still gonna have the same type of situations occur because people are involved. Before you start bringing the training in, one of one of the most important things to do, and uh, and again, just relative to the culture itself, is involve as many people as you can and as many different layers as possible.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

And hi there, welcome to Business Leadership Podcast. In this episode, I had a discussion with Ron Reach. Ron is a passionate leadership management development subject matter expert and a coach with 28 years of experience in a diversified industries and expert facilitator. Ron believes in evolving participants in their learning, leading to higher engagement and equality results. He's also a voracious reader. He stays current with the latest research and philosophies, which he loves sharing with his clients. Now, this was a very interesting discussion. We talked about various topics around the business leadership challenges. Hope you've enjoyed this discussion as much as I did. Um, if you find the value out of this discussion, don't forget to uh like, share, subscribe to this channel, and send us your feedback. Your feedback is very important to us. Allow us to focus on our right discussion, still help you grow and scale your business. So thank you again for your time. Until next time, please welcome Ron Reach. Hi guys, welcome to Business Leadership Podcast. Today our guest is Ron Reach. Um, he's a president from RLB Training and Development. Ron, you've been helping a lot of business owners, business leaders in many different areas. So I'm looking forward to learning from you, looking forward to a discussion. Thank you so much for time uh today, and welcome to the podcast.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

Oh, Grimeet, thank you. I'm glad to be here. I'm anxious to talk with you.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

Okay.

Common Leadership Challenge: Leaders Skip Training

SPEAKER_01 2:30

So you've been working with a lot of business leaders, Ron. If you uh, you know, uh is there a way to pinpoint what are some of the common challenges a lot of business leaders are where we are currently economically, economically, financially, in in a world affairs. What are some of the key challenges people are up against?

SPEAKER_00 2:47

I think Kermita, I I think one of the biggest challenges that I've been coming across with the business owners is that they they believe their staff needs training and they don't. And I and I I think it's such a challenge. I've been having this, I've been having these types of discussions with people recently. I've been doing quite a bit of work with the the city of New York and a lot of the city agencies and things like that. And I mean it's it's so much fun because the people are wonderful. One of the biggest problems, and they're all saying the same thing to me. Ron, this is great, this is great, our commissioners need this, our commissioners need this. And it it agreed, it's the classic. They need the help, they they need you know, the training and and the fixing, if you will.

SPEAKER_01 3:49

Yeah, yeah. So what is what is causing that? What is uh behind that, you know, of the logic that that they don't need a training? Is it do they believe that they need a different kind of training, or they simply believe that they're not trainable anymore? You know, they already given up on the training. What's going on? What's causing that to trigger that?

SPEAKER_00 4:06

I I think I think it's several fold. Number one, I think partially it's ego, where it's like, well, I'm right, I run this place. I mean, I I clearly I know what I'm doing because I'm running this place and we're in business and you know, we're doing well, and you know, all these different things. I also believe it's again kind of tying into the same thing. I think a lot of it is a time issue or the belief that they don't have the time to invest in this, which to me is crazy. And I mean, of course I would say that given what I do.

SPEAKER_01 4:43

Yeah, but but how could you uh expect yourself to be trained on something that you haven't taken initiative to understand

Why Leaders Resist Training (Ego & Time)

SPEAKER_01 4:50

and learn and be trained yourself? I mean, how do you how do you expect the team to be trained on this stuff?

SPEAKER_00 4:55

That's that's exactly it. I mean, that that that that is exactly it. How can you expect there to be any consistency unless everybody organizationally has gone through the training itself? And yeah, I mean it it just it just makes no sense to me. It just doesn't.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

Yeah, yeah, I you know, understand the timing side of the things, like you know, I don't have a time for well, that's just used normally as cues that I don't have a time for it. You gotta make up time for for everything important in a business. But you know, I'm trying to understand, you know, why why they you know how could you be successful in a business if you're not open to training, you know, open to different perspective, different way of looking at things. I mean, one of the key elements for business leaders is to finding new perspective, new way of doing things. But if you're not training yourself, you know, uh on an ongoing basis, how do you how do you learn and how do you grow? That's it.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

I mean, it it's exactly it. And you know, one of the other big things for me too, Gurmeed, and this is this is something I love about what I do as well, is that in it in addition to the training itself, the conversations that people are having together that they normally would not be having during a regular business day. And I mean, getting to know each other better, and and not only that is just coming up with, well, you know what? I mean, I think we could apply this to the launch that we have coming up, or you know, what whatever it might be. And that I mean, it's it's just there's so many different benefits to it, and I think that again, it it's it's it's just tragic to me that they a lot of people just won't make that investment.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

The team that you know what kind of well, let's if you can walk our audience through Ron, what kind of training you provide? And uh, is it a leadership? What kind of training you yeah you we're talking about so people have a better idea what are

Benefits of Full-Team Training & Culture

SPEAKER_01 6:50

we talking about? Sure. Then I want to get into how people see that training. Is do they see that as an investment or do they see simply just another to-do items that they just want to get it off the list? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

Grimita, essentially what I do is leadership development, management development, and I also I also work with people at all different levels within organizations, mostly smaller to mid-sized firms, and just helping people, like I said, do their jobs more effectively through education, training, and coaching. And I've been doing that for about 32 years now, and yeah, it's just it's passionate about what I do, and one of the reasons I'm so passionate too is because just how I am hardwired, I love making a difference in people's lives, I love making a difference to organizations.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

What interesting, and and you know, the training requires a discipline, but you know, no matter what trade you look at, that if you discipline yourself enough to train on a daily basis, you know, a little bit, little bit, little bit, little bit little inch by inch, you're gonna, you know, if you look at a six months back, you're gonna make a huge difference in a company or people's lives, you know, just because you just went through the discipline and a schedule ongoing basis, but you've been making small changes on a training side.

SPEAKER_00 8:15

That's right. So people sorry, go ahead. No, no, no, please. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

No, no, I was gonna I was gonna ask you, you know, you know, one of the reasons people push back on a training is uh simply they see that you know the work is more important, investment in the training is not as important as work, and and they you know kind of push back on a training. Is that what you see from a you know from a ground level, or is that what the leaders use as cues not to uh spend time on the trainings?

SPEAKER_00 8:40

I th I think it's both. I mean, I really do. And so, you know, we're we're so busy, we have so much to get done, and you know, we have so many different priorities.

Ron's Leadership & Management Development Work

SPEAKER_00 8:50

And it's like, you know, I'm a I'm a big fan in Stephen Covey's work from the seven habits of highly effective people. Stephen, yeah, very, very fortunate, very blessed to be certified to teach that class. And the one the one thing he talks about right in the beginning of the session during one of the videos, are you being effective or are you being efficient? And the way I define it and the way I like to define it to business owners and to other people, to me, efficiency doing things right. Okay, fine, we're doing all of these things right, we're very busy and we're refining processes and all these other things, but are you being efficient? To me, efficient means are you doing the right things? And so often people are spending their time. We need to be efficient, we need to be efficient. No, no, not in my mind. You need to be more effective. Are you doing the right things? And the right thing is helping to develop your staff to be its best, and you included in that.

SPEAKER_01 10:04

Yeah, and especially in a leadership role. So, I mean, that you know, they need to be effective, but especially when it comes to people. You trying to develop your people. If you're not effective, how are you gonna develop and train your people?

SPEAKER_00 10:15

That's right. And I mean, that's and it it really is that simple. I mean, and you know, none none of these concepts that we talk about in the sessions I do are rocket science. None of it. Except it's it's amazing to me when we're going through these concepts and you see light bulbs going on, and it's like, man, these are the basics here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

Is that and what's so what's changing in a leadership world? Uh sorry, on a training side, uh, Ron, you've been helping a lot of business leaders. Is the training changing uh over the last few years, especially when we've gone through the COVID? We work in a lot of decentralized environment, not everybody's under the same uh you know roof. And also, you know, what's going on over the current affairs? Like there's so many changes, technological changes, business changes. Is that training evolving? You know, what's what's happening in a world of training?

SPEAKER_00 11:12

The the the the training is evolving, Gurmit, yes. Except the one thing that I still say to people is that you know, organizations say to me quite often, oh, we're very unique. You know, what we do, you know, we're very niche-oriented, and you know, whatever it might be, all these things is like, yes, and I agree with that, and I do. I also tell people people are people, you're still gonna have the same issues, you're still gonna have the same type of situations occur because people are involved, and again, it goes back to this is where you need to be at your best with the people, the technology, the AI,

Discipline & Incremental Training Impact

SPEAKER_00 12:00

and everything else. Absolutely, I'm a believer in that. People are still involved.

SPEAKER_01 12:08

Yeah, interesting. So let me ask you this question. I've been thinking about it for a while, Iran. Does training impact culture in a company?

SPEAKER_00 12:21

I think I'm um I I I I actually would go in the opposite direction and say culture impacts the training. And I'll I'll give you an example, two two of them actually, a a good one and and one that didn't work out so well. I was talking to a couple of senior leaders at a food company here in New Jersey, where we live, and they were saying to me, Ron, we need management training. We you know, we need somebody to come in and and help us to learn how to delegate and how to you know how to listen and do all these other things. People are running around and you know, like chickens without a head. And they're going on. I was like, gentlemen, I agree with you. You need management training, except the first thing that needs to happen, you need to develop a formal culture with the organization. Because one of the reasons people are running around and no and nobody knows where anybody is or what anybody is doing is because there's no vision, there's no mission, there are no values, there's no culture statement, and you can't hold people accountable to anything, and that's an issue. And we spent some time together starting on the work, and the classic for me, just the absolute classic. Ron, this has been great. We're really busy, we have other priorities now. We'll maybe we'll pick this up again in six months or a year. And I was like, okay, wish you well with that. I've been working with a realty company here in New Jersey, same situation. We need management training, we need all these other things. And I was like, folks, no, you not yet, not yet, not yet. Let's do the culture first, and they're doing it right. We've gone through the culture work, they've got they've got the vision developed, they have the mission developed, they have the values defined. We are getting ready to do the formal culture launch. We have already done we after having done all this work, now we we just started with the leadership management training for the senior leaders, and now we'll and then the next step is bringing it down to the manager level. And to my way of thinking, that's the right way to do it. They're making the time investment, they realize this is what needs to happen in order to be a success, and people are excited about it, and I'm confident it's gonna help.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

Yeah, that's such a great point. And and the reason I ask you the question was uh I it's seen so many times, uh Ron, is that if you don't build a culture first, you simply start bringing a training in. And and uh, you know, business owners believe that that bringing a training in, training is going to build the culture, but then you have to ask yourself, whose culture are you building? Are you building some so who you know is is that your culture you're building, or are you building the culture of the trainer who coming in and trying to do the training? And if it does build, you know, if if the people start following their culture, whatever company is training, then you're not gonna complain about it. It's it's uh you built the wrong culture because you didn't have it to start with, right? And I've seen that so many times. And I was I was up against the same kind of scenarios that when I started bringing a training in a company, I simply said no, the culture is my responsibility. I gotta build a culture first, or I gotta work on that piece first, and then I'll bring a training as required, or I will simply just summarize the training in with the culture and see what I can do when I was very, very small in a company. I was just doing myself. But I think to the to the point, you you're such a great point. You business owners gotta take a responsibility for culture first and then start in incorporating training.

SPEAKER_00 16:14

That's right. I I read somewhere, and I I loved this statement, and I share it with people. If your company doesn't have a formal culture, the cur the culture will form itself. And which which would you prefer? Yeah, you in a cultural exactly. You may very well not like the culture. And you know, the another another another comment that I heard or read somewhere is that you know, it define if there's no defined culture, the culture at the organization is the lowest level of acceptable behavior. That's your culture.

SPEAKER_01 16:53

Is it good enough? You know, okay, we can survive with it. Exactly. Yeah. Wow. What interesting. So people who need to definitely need to start understanding some of these things that, you know, you've been helping business leaders. So in order for them to let's let's focus a little bit on a culture side. So, what can they do before they start incorporating training? Uh, vision, and we talk about a mission or vision statement, you know, that that is part of it. But what else business leaders can do? They you know, make sure the culture is tied in before they start bringing the training in.

SPEAKER_00 17:23

But before you start bringing the training in, one of one of the most important things to do, and uh, and again, just relative to the culture itself, is involve as many people as you can and as many different layers as possible. And again, I'll go to another client of mine out in uh Indianapolis. They are a heavy-duty towing company. And you know, I I know the owner, and I mean they're a company of about a hundred people, so I know the owner, they have one VP, they have the director of uh human resources, and you know, just a couple of other senior leaders, if you will. I was talking to them, and I was like, guys, we need to keep drilling down and drilling down, and we need to get to at least some of the some of the folks who are driving the trucks, the people who are in the field, that's where you want to find out what is the culture, what would they like the culture to be, because otherwise it's gonna be your culture, not everybody's culture, your culture. And I Gramita, I give them so much credit because what they said to me, Ron, come out here, come out here and spend a week with us and just spend time with us, the senior leaders, spend time with some people in the office, spend time with folks on the trucks, go in the field with them, talk to them, and that's where you get your best information. That's where you're gonna get the commitment, that's where you're gonna have the credibility because all the different levels have been involved.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

Yeah, there's no better culture than just bringing everybody on the same page and everybody's using the same information, same way same way moving company forward. I mean, that is that is a great example, Lauren.

SPEAKER_00 19:25

Yeah, yeah. It's been a lot of fun, and we're still working on it. I mean, it's it's been about a little over two years, and I mean it's it's a work in progress, it's going well. And I mean, one one of the things that's so much fun though, for me too, is that from this they had the the company has made some sweeping organizational changes, they've made some structural changes based on this, and that's what they needed. You know, this is this in order to be effective,

Measuring Training Success & ROI

SPEAKER_00 20:00

not efficient, effective the right thing to do in making these changes, and you know, part of this too, though, is and and this is what I explained to them and and also to the realty company, is that when you start doing this work, particularly with a small organization, not everybody is gonna buy into this, and that's okay, except if they don't buy into it, they're gonna need to go away.

SPEAKER_01 20:31

Yeah, they they may not buy in very, very early. And what I've seen is that a lot of people are not gonna buy in when you start the training. Over the time, if you keep doing the same training over, some will change their mind. Yeah, and those will become your advocate, and some don't change their mind that you gotta deal with the problem. You then you know you gotta deal with the uh the issues. That's exactly right. Kudos to those, some of them will change their mind if you keep consistent, you know, consistently providing training to the people.

SPEAKER_00 20:57

That's right. And and and and and Gramit, that that's exactly right. I mean, I I I love this story. A number of years ago, it's my understanding. I didn't read about this. I wish I I wish I could have been there, it would have been fun. Staples reorganized a number of years ago. They get a new CEO. He comes on board, he calls a meeting for the top, let's just say 200 leaders of staples, big auditorium, and he just tells them, folks, I am going to make sweeping changes here, sweeping, including the culture. And here's what I'm gonna do. And he outlined the changes for them. And then this is my point. He said to them, folks, you have 30 days to make up your mind. Okay, if you want to be a part of this, wonderful. If you decide in the next 30 days you do not want to be a part of these changes, please do yourself and do me a favor. Come to Talk to me because I promise you something. I will help you find another job. I have contacts everywhere. Not everybody is going to like what we're doing here. And that's okay. And then he went on to say, if you're here on day 31, that tells me very clearly you're committed to this. If I find out you're sabotaging me, or or not, no, I shouldn't say me, sabotaging the initiatives after day 31, you will be fired in a heartbeat. The choice is yours. And to me, that's perfect. Here's what we're gonna do. You have some time to think about it. I'll help you find another job if you don't want to be here. If you're here and you're gonna and and and you're not gonna support it, you're done. That's simple.

SPEAKER_01 22:55

But he was very clear and transparent on a process and give it enough time for people to make up their mind.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

Exactly. That's uh to me, that's exactly it.

SPEAKER_01 23:05

Yes. So how did the how did the process go? I don't know if you followed up on that process. How did it go?

SPEAKER_00 23:11

I I don't know the answer to that, and I I I wish I did. I I really do. The only thing I know about it is the story.

SPEAKER_01 23:19

Yeah, I'd be surprised if somebody called them up and asked for uh you know for another position they want to move on to. I think most people will change their mind and they would they want to work at the same company.

SPEAKER_00 23:29

Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, I I mean I I had that experience at Toshiba many years ago when in fact it was it was my first training job. It was so many years ago, Gurmit, that it was in the I was in the copier and fax division of Toshiba. We reorganized, we get a new general manager slash CEO on board for our division, very, very small, 600 people. Okay, Brian Merriman is his name. He comes on board saying to us, and we all knew this beforehand, we need to double market share in four years. And and and you know, a lot of things are gonna need to change. The culture will need to change a lot of things, fine. Brian comes on board, he invited everybody east of the Mississippi River to a hotel in New Jersey for a meeting to introduce himself and so forth. He was gonna do the same thing for the other people west of the river out on the west coast. Fine. We're in the room. Brian is introducing himself. All right, this is what we're gonna do, everybody, and it's we're gonna have a lot of fun. He said, and I gotta tell you something, the choice is yours. The choice is yours. If you want to be a part of this, it's gonna be great. If you don't want to be a part of this, you need to leave now because I'm gonna find out who you are and you won't like the consequences.

unknown 25:00

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

That's clear.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

Yeah, yeah. Very.

SPEAKER_01 25:04

Yeah, yeah. Good. So let's talk about training a little bit, uh, Ron. Definitely what's going on out there. You know, at companies who are trying to grow, each on a scale, business leader leaders who are listening to that to our podcast or watching us. There are so many trainings. There's definitely a leadership training. We've been talking about that. There's a systems training because technology is changing so fast. There is a communication and a soft skills training because you know, you bring in people from different parts of the world, you've got to train them on a language, and you also got to train on a so train them on a soft skills and people skills, and there's so many other trainings. How does a company go about prioritizing which training they're gonna take on or they're gonna run all of them in a parallel? I mean, best case scenario, if they're running all the training in a parallel, there's not gonna have much time left in a day or two to run a business, right? So how do they how do they prioritize, how do they nail it down? Okay, you know, this is what we're gonna build a path.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

I think I think a lot of this comes down to how committed the you know the the leaders are to the training itself and how you know what kind of initiatives are taking place. And I mean, I I am perfectly comfortable, and I mean that, Gramid, I really, really am. If a if a if a leader says to me, Ron, we've got other priorities right now, we've got to take care of these things over the next eight or nine months or the over the next year. Okay, okay, I am not one, and I won't be to sit there, oh, you're making a mistake, you're making a mistake. It's not for me to tell people that. I mean, I will outline clearly what what my what the objectives are and what I can do for an organization, and then they need to decide what the priorities are based on that. I mean, I'll gladly make recommendations, absolutely. I mean, I what I like to do is kind of almost intersperse is you know, let you know, let an organization start on an initiative, get it going, see how it's going, and then intersperse. Okay, let's do a day of leadership training, let's do a day of how to give feedback, how to listen, emotional intelligence, whatever it might be. Because the leadership training that I'm doing also is not a huge time commitment. It is a commitment and there's time involved. There are no doubt about it. We're also not talking about give me a week. I need I need a week of your uninterrupted time. That's almost impossible for anybody to do.

SPEAKER_01 27:40

Yeah. Yeah, because they, you know, there's so much responsibility they got, right? They they're financially, they got to run a company, they're gonna manage people. There's so many different moving parts in a business they got a handle on, taking the time, that much time away. So, so if there's a three, four different training people need to run. So, would you would you uh uh stack them in a parallel? Simply say, listen, instead of spending a half an hour on a leadership, maybe we'll spend 10 minutes on leadership, five minutes on a communication, another five minutes on a systems and technology training, whatever they gotta do, and stack it up that way. So a little bit of time from every day you're spending on a training on a longer run. And so it's so instead of six months training, it'll become a year training. Um, instead of four months, it'll become eight months training. So is that a right approach, or you would just say, listen, are we gonna pause this training and just go with this training for now?

SPEAKER_00 28:26

You know, I Gurmit for me again, everybody is different, everybody needs to make these decisions so it works for them, for their organization, and no pun intended here for the culture of their organization. So, I mean, it and I I I I hate to say it depends, except it it truly, truly does. I mean, I'll sit down and I mean one one thing that I've learned over the years, the the best sales training that I ever went to was many, many years ago. And it it it ironically was through the covey people. And what I what I learned from that though, whenever there are when when people need to think about priorities or what should we be doing, where should we invest, whatever it might be, is that I always recommend to people, if you do this training, what will it allow you to do that you cannot do today? And then you keep asking yourself that question, okay, what will it allow you to do today? That what will it allow you to do that you can't do today? Well, if we if we listen better, I'm just taking this out of the air, it would allow us to learn more about learn learn more about each other and probably solve problems more effectively. What would that allow you to do? Well, if we're solving problems more effectively, we would probably be able to shorten our our sales cycle. What would that allow you to do? And you keep going with that until you get to a measurable answer.

SPEAKER_02 30:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 30:06

Then on the other side of that, you also ask, what are the top challenges you're facing? If you don't do this training, what would be some of the challenges you're gonna face? Well, if we're not listening to each other, we're not getting the best ideas. What happens then? Well, if we're not getting the best ideas, we may not be, you know, we we may not be using the latest technology, or we're not using what happens then, and you keep going until you get to a measurable figure, and then you compare and contrast what would it allow you to do, what problems does it cause, and you can almost see where the what the proper investment might be.

SPEAKER_01 30:51

Yeah, if you can uh you know, layer by layer to your point, that's like such a great point and very quick way of looking at it. If you layer by layer, if you can tie back to the company goals, what a company is trying to achieve, and I think it's easy to justify it, easy to uh focus on a training. And other way around as well, if you don't take a training, uh what what would you uh you know put on a jeopardy? I guess you know, it's gonna come down to the same thing. We won't achieve our goals uh what over if we don't take a training. So if you tie training to that, I think that that's such a great way of putting it that yeah, you're gonna you're gonna work harder to achieve those goals. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 31:24

That's right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:25

So yeah, we're interesting. So is that only for leadership training? How about uh all the other in you know, training managers or directors training? Do they also tie back to the same goals, uh Steve, or the different way of looking at it?

SPEAKER_00 31:36

Oh no, it it every everything ties back or meet, and again, for me, we we kind of talked about this right in the beginning. Everything does need to tie together so that there is consistency there. And yet those are the reasons everybody needs to go through this training. And I mean, what what what I talk to people about so often too is that particularly senior leaders, is that when you have a difficult decision to make and you're having trouble, and I don't mean you know you're debating and you're debating with your with your colleagues, and and and there's there's no consensus. What's your guiding light? What's the guiding light? And what I always look for, the answer I'm hoping to hear, it's our vision. It's our vision to say, well, we we just make decisions based on what's right. How do you know what's right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:33

Such a good good point, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:35

Yeah. So I mean, every everything does tie together, and it's it's got there's got to be that consistency, and there has to be that well, I'll I'll just leave it at that, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

How important is Steve to sorry, Ron, to measure your progress? You know, if somebody checking a training, you know, is it's how important is the measuring the step and a progress, and also the if the person is understanding the training or simply just going through it just for the flow it, and did that change over the last few years because people do a lot of remote training as well, because they're not working in the same same environment anymore. Is that diff do we have a different way of measuring it, make sure that we, you know, step by step be moving in the right direction?

SPEAKER_00 33:14

I am I am still a believer, Gurmit, in in the four different levels of of measurement. The first two the first two levels you can you can ascertain instantly after the training event itself. How did you like it? What did you learn? Oh, I had a great time, and I learned so much from this training. That's wonderful, and obviously that's what we're after. Then that then the rubber needs to hit the road because now you've left the training and now you're going back to work. So the the third level is how is your behavior changing as a result of having gone through the training? So you have to measure the behavior change, and then the fourth level is as a result of your behavior change, how are ultimate results being impacted?

SPEAKER_01 34:12

Got it. So these are open, big, big questions that somebody gotta so can you you can approach the same questions, I guess. If you're doing a remote training as well, it doesn't have to be in a person, you can still get the same information from people. Yes, yes, yeah, got it, got it. Yeah, if you can ask those uh those big questions, if you can get some feedback from people, it's not true or false, they have to provide some feedback into it.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

That's exactly right. I mean, that that that is exactly right. And I mean, I think a lot of times where where training initiatives fall down is that all they care about are those first two. Oh, yeah, I had a great time and I learned a lot. Oh, good, we did our jobs, yay! And I know not true, not true, not true. I mean, I again I I

Tying Training to Performance & Rewards

SPEAKER_00 35:00

I got into it candidly. This was many, many, many years ago. I was working for a a different uh copier and fax organization, and we were talking about how can we get better, how can we get better, how can we be more efficient, not effective. And I I still remember one of the managers said, Oh, our you know, our ratings last year were 4.79 out of five. This year we want to go up to 4.85. And I just said to him, I was like, Paul, what difference is that gonna make? Yeah, what tell me, what difference does it make? All you're saying is, oh, people had a better time and they and they learned a lot. That's it, Paul. 4.79 and 4.85 is meaningless unless they're applying it and it's making a difference. That's where we need to be focusing our time. That's being effective.

SPEAKER_01 36:03

Yeah. At 4.7 comes from, you know, after uh training you, you know, how was your experience rate from zero to ten and the people everybody rates from eight or nine or something, you know, just to when they're nice to people. That's where that the 4.7 comes from, right? So write your rating, please, for this course, 0 to 10, 0 if you didn't like it, 10 if you that it was the best training ever. That's right. Yeah, it doesn't matter if somebody uses it or not, but that's that's what they're looking for. But I think to your point, uh, that's such a great point. You want to find out if the behavior changed or they're making uh meaningful changes in a company after going through the training course, whatever whatever you provided. And I think that's what you're trying to measure. Yes, that's it.

SPEAKER_00 36:44

That's exactly it. And I mean, you know, Germita, what uh when it to follow up on that too, though, because this is a very important point, because I am such a strong believer in that, is that, yeah, let's put the people through the training. There's no doubt about that. Then, then, you know, whatever timeline we agree on, maybe it's a month, maybe it's two months, whatever it might be, is let me come back, let me spend time with the people who have gone through the training, let me spend time with their teams just talking to them about how has Gurmit's, you know, what the how has Gurmit's behavior changed? What, you know, what's different after him having attended the training? And that's where you start to measure the real impact.

SPEAKER_02 37:36

Hmm.

SPEAKER_01 37:37

Let me take it one step further, Ron. Do you see companies who provide this kind of training? You know, they they have the meaningful training, they measure it. Do they tie back to the financial performance as well for the person, you know, in a in a roles where they the bonuses are available, there's the performance bonuses, and there's a bunch of other compensation available. Do you see the success of the training also tied to that that the financial rewards?

SPEAKER_00 38:01

I have not seen that. It should. It should. No, no, there are no doubt about that. I have not seen that because, again, so many of the leaders are just focused simply on the actual bottom line, the actual, the actual results, if you will.

SPEAKER_01 38:20

But wouldn't that be wonderful? If you can tie that, you know, if you give in a performance bonus, and one of that element is a training, other ones could be performances or deal closures, whatever you want to do. And one of them is a training, successful training, effective training. If you tie that into it, the you will have more people, you know, more serious people going through the training.

SPEAKER_00 38:41

Yes. Yeah, absolutely. People are gonna be more motivated, people are gonna be more committed to it, knowing that they they actually have a stake in it. And it's not just, yeah, I get I get a couple of days, you know, off here, quote unquote.

SPEAKER_01 38:58

Yeah, yeah. Well, interesting. How can people you know people the business leaders are watching us? You know, definitely everybody needs the training, it's a critical part of the business uh run. How can they connect with you? How can where can they find you?

SPEAKER_00 39:11

Grimmed, probably the best way to do it is through LinkedIn. Just very simply, my name is on on the uh on the screen there, LinkedIn RLB training and development. And uh, I welcome the chance to chat with anybody. And you know, I always say to people, and I mean it, is that if anybody uh would like to chat, that's exactly what we're gonna do. It's not gonna be a sales call, it's not gonna be, oh yeah, you know, we need to work together, absolutely.

How to Connect with Ron Reich

SPEAKER_00 39:40

All I want to do is talk to you. And if we can, if we figure out, hey, this, you know, maybe there is something here, wonderful. If not, so be it. At least we have made the attempt, and I'll still try to help any way I can.

SPEAKER_01 39:54

Well interesting. I'm gonna include a link to your LinkedIn page, to your website below this video. People can click a button, they can reach out to you for conversation, Ron. Um, so you know, just for quick of a discussion, I learned so much from you, different way we're looking at training, critical part of every business. I'd encourage business leaders who are watching us or listening to us on a podcast, click a button below, reach out to you for conversation. Who knows where the discussion is gonna take you? But please have a further conversation with you and and uh you know, just let that conversation happen. And who knows? I'm sure they're gonna learn tons from you on a training when they connect with you. Before we go, any message you want to leave for business leaders watching us or listening to us around if somebody's thinking about starting a training program or they want to build training or they're thinking about a culture or training, where can they start? You know, something small they can start and then they can progress from there.

SPEAKER_00 40:48

You know what, Gurmit? The recommendation I would make here. Number one, I always ask people to read a book before we get into any

Final Advice: Start with "The Advantage" Book

SPEAKER_00 41:00

culture training. And that book is called The Advantage. It's written by a gentleman named Patrick Lencione, L-E-N C O I N I, he's from the Boston area, and The Advantage talks all about every organization in the world, regardless of size, is smart. Every single company has smart people working within it. And Patrick goes on to say most organizations are unhealthy, and they're unhealthy because they don't have a clear mission, they don't have the values and and the all the all everything necessary to be effective. And I like people to read that book because it gives such a good framework to food for thought, and and I'm not, and again, please, I'm not trying to be self-serving here because I worked with an art gallery in Manhattan a number of years ago, did some leadership training, went very, very well. Talking to what the uh CFO was part of the group, and he comes up to me afterwards. This was great, absolutely love it. And we were talking about culture, and I said to him, I'd like you to before we do anything, I'd like you to read this book. Okay, fine. I'll, you know, I will, I will. My family and I were going skiing over the weekend out in Colorado. I'll read it on the plane. I was like, great, okay, super. So that week goes, ten days. I I try to follow up about two weeks later, and it's crickets. So I called my first contact in HR and I was talking to her, and I said, Let me tell you what I think happened. Go ahead. And she was laughing. He read the book, yep. He loved it, yep. He tried to do it on his own, yep, and it turned out to be a nightmare. Yep. And he doesn't want to talk to me because of that. Yep. And and and my my point is, my point here simply is though, that reading the book is a framework. You want to do it right, you want to do this effectively. Truly, you need to bring somebody in from the outside to facilitate the process.

SPEAKER_01 43:13

Yeah. You know, business itself has so many blind spots. You know, there's a you know, when you're trying to scale a company, grow a company, we are, you know, business owners who are expert or something, they start a business. So they're not gonna be expert on every area in the business. That's where there's so many blind spots. And when you're starting something new, which is a training program, it just fills up all the blind spot. You're not gonna be able to see all that the area or talk to everybody to understand. That's where we need experts like you to come in and help us to deliver the training and help us to get there.

SPEAKER_00 43:41

Well, and and Gourmi, truly, to me, your cut your comment right there was probably one of the most critical things anybody can realize as a leader. I have blind spots, I have blind spots, and I need help with my blind spots. Um, and in fact, you know, if if you don't mind, my my my wife, Lori, Lori taught for 31 years. She taught fifth grade. One of the lessons she used to teach every year was it is not about how smart are you, it's about kids, how are you smart? And I'll tell you right now, every say it's like it's like what Lencioni says every company has smart people. Grimina, I'll tell you right now, I'm a bright guy. I really am. I'm a bright guy in certain areas, and I have blind spots. You're a bright guy. There's no doubt in my mind about that. It's been a lot of fun talking to you. You have certain blind spots, and I don't say that to be critical. Everybody does. Everybody's gonna have that.

SPEAKER_01 44:53

You're not going to master every area of your business or any area or master life. That's where you need that, you know, people like you, you know, coaches, consultants to help us get through, first of all, to identify what the blind spot is, and then help you get over that blind spot so you can hit the next blind spot. Right. I mean, I think that's what business is about. Because every stage in a business is gonna have some sort of blind spot, some sort of obstacles, right? So you get over this obstacle, then you get to the next one, and then you get to the next one, and then you need different people to get you through those areas. And that's what I learned in a business that you know every stage can have an inflection point, and every inflection point has a different problem to solve. You need a different people to help you get over those things. Yes, yes, very interesting. It was fun talking to you, Ron. It was it was a great discussion. I enjoyed it. Thank you so much for very generous with the time. Thank you so much for time. We'll talk soon. Okay, Grammy. Thank you. I appreciate it. All right, have a good one, Ron. We'll talk soon. All right, bye-bye. Bye. If you enjoyed this discussion, I'm I recommend to check one of these discussions on the top. Um, also don't forget to go back to that channel homepage. There's a playlist created just for you, whether you're looking for business discussion, technology discussion, or process discussion for business growth, all those categories are there, and I'm sure you will find something that you enjoy from those categories as well. So don't forget to send us your feedback, subscribe to this channel for any upcoming videos. Your feedback is very important to us, allow us to focus on the right discussion to deliver value for you on a weekly basis. So enjoy until next time. Thank you for your time.