You Don't Have an Employee Problem. You Have a Leadership Problem.

Leadership development and succession planning are core to sustainable growth. They build strong leaders, ensure smooth transitions, reduce disruption, and drive revenue—strengthening resilience, accelerating scale, and protecting your competitive edge.

In this episode, I speak with Jim Carlough, a revenue growth expert who builds scalable revenue engines for healthcare technology companies. Over 25+ years, he’s grown pipelines past $100M, lifted close rates from 15% to 72%, and delivered 150%+ of ARR targets as President and Chief Sales Officer at mPulse and HealthTrio. A former leader at Health Management Systems and Cognizant, Jim is also the Amazon bestselling author of *The Six Essential Pillars of Effective Leadership* and a leading voice on closing Leadership Identity Gaps.

https://jimcarlough.com/

Chapters

00:00 Introduction
02:37 The Importance of Compassion in Leadership
06:46 Understanding Empathy vs. Compassion
14:10 Identifying Leadership Problems
15:46 The Role of Mentorship in Leadership
21:13 The Journey to Leadership Development
26:05 Integrity as a Foundation for Leadership
31:23 Starting Your Leadership Journey

Transcript

Introduction

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I have seen a trend that has changed over the last 30-some years. Um, and you're being nice by not mentioning the number of years, so I appreciate that, but it's it's been over 35. We years ago, when I first started out in the corporate world, we did a lot of succession planning. Now that people don't stay with companies for 30 years or 25 years and they move around, succession planning has gone to the side. There is very few companies that truly have a leadership development program. In my 30 plus years in my career, and I've worked for a number of companies, there's only one company that I worked for that truly had a management development program that taught people how to lead other people. I'm big on mentoring. And your mentor should not be your manager. Because that manager would overinfluence you as opposed to an independent mentor. So I'm very big on mentoring. One of the things that I'm very frustrated with, and this is a global problem. Not a US only problem, but a global problem. We in this world, in corporate world, in governments, everywhere, have gotten away from integrity. I truly believe we have gotten.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

Hi there, welcome to Business Leadership Podcast. In this episode, I had a discussion with the James Carlo. James is a revenue growth expert who rebuilds repeatable, scalable revenue engines for healthcare technology companies. With over 25 years of experience, he has scaled pipelines to 100 million plus, rebuilt close ratio from 15% to 72%, and delivered 150% plus of ARR targets as a president and a chief sales officer at Impulse and Health Trio. He's a former leader at a health management system and cognizant. He's Amazon's best-selling author of a six leadership pillars of effective leadership, and he speaks on closing the leadership identity gaps. Hope you find the value out of this discussion as much as I did. If you do find a value, don't forget to like, share, subscribe to our channel, send us your feedback. Your feedback is very important to us. Allow us to focus on the right uh discussions to help you grow and scale your business. So until next time, thanks for listening. Please welcome James Carlo. Hi guys, welcome to Business Leadership

The Importance of Compassion in Leadership

SPEAKER_01 2:37

Podcast. Today we're guest is Jim Carlo. Jim, you've been helping uh business leaders for very long time. Your book is very interesting. So I'm looking forward to learning from you, looking forward to a discussion. Thank you so much for time today. I'm glad to be here. Um, I think we're gonna have fun. Looking forward to it. So you've been helping a lot of business leaders, uh uh Jim for a while. So, you know, if you uh and uh you know, some of that was uh in your book as well. So if you can uh is there but you can pinpoint what's some of the common common challenges, what do you see that business uh you know uh leaders or business owners are up against when they're trying to scale their company, trying to go with their company? What are some of the common, you know, the challenges they they they they they get stuck on?

SPEAKER_00 3:17

So uh I have seen a trend that has changed over the last 30-some years, and you're being nice by not mentioning the number of years, so I appreciate that, but it's it's been over 35. We years ago, when I first started out in the corporate world, we did a lot of succession planning. Now that people don't stay with companies for 30 years or 25 years and they move around, succession planning has gone to the side. And what happens is when a leader exits the organization at any level, the first thing that happens is people start to look internally for someone who is technically proficient in that area, and they plop them up and they ask them, Do you want to be a manager or do you want to be a leader? And they make them a leader, they shake their hand, but they tell them nothing about what they need to do. They may think they need to they know what to do because of the priorities of the business that they're in, but they don't give them a roadmap for how to manage them. And so as I've mentored people for the last 25 years, I have seen this consistently over and over and over again. And the Society of Human Resource Managers have even written about it, and they call them accidental managers, people that ever intended to be a manager, but were thrown into that role. And then they also cite some research, not it's not my research, but they find that within 12 to 18 months, people on the team start to, I don't want to say disintegrate, but disengage. The the phrase quiet quitting has come up every now and then as a where people just sit there to pass their time. And then by 24 months, the leader starts to see themselves as ineffective and realizing that they themselves are struggling and they begin to burn out. And the main reason they begin to burn out is they've never made that transition from individual contributor to manager or slash leader in terms of delegation of work, in terms of teaching people how to do things versus doing it for them. And that struggle is costing everybody a lot of money because when you have to replace an employee, the cost, and again, this is all been validated by the Society of Human Resource Managers, it says that it's going to cost you 100% of that person's salary that's just left up to 300%. And right now in the United States, the voluntary attrition rate averages between 10 and 15 percent. So if we think about that for a second, and you're a 500-person company, if you lose 10% of your employees, that's 50 people you have to replace. If their manager is all making $100,000, I like simple math. If they're all making $100,000 and it's going to cost you 200% to replace them, that's $10 million of profit. Yeah. That you're just taking away from the bottom line. Gallup estimates that we waste in the United States alone $1.7 billion on

Understanding Empathy vs. Compassion

SPEAKER_00 6:46

this problem.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

Wow. That is uh very interesting point, James. Uh, in and as and and I think that's a much bigger problem than a lot of people understand at this problem. So I want to unpack. You mentioned so many different angles of that. This is certainly a disease in my industry as well. I think it's in every company that, you know, technical and you know, we put so so you know, in IT industry, we hire some somebody system analyst, you know, uh, then we give them a team leader position, then we give them a manager, he's director, he's a CTO, then then it becomes a vice, you know, it goes up and up, but there's the mindset hasn't changed, the skill set hasn't changed. We just changed the title. So, but I want to understand from you know, it I think it exists in every industry, but I want to understand what's causing this, what's behind this, this the causing. Is that because we put so much emphasis on a business understanding, business knowledge or business workflow that we don't put emphasis on a you know uh leadership side of things? Because uh skill set that's acquired for one job, it's not gonna be the same skill set for another job, especially when you're putting in a leadership role. It's totally different skill set where we're required as a as a technical resource. So we put a lot more emphasis on a technical knowledge, technical understanding, and not on a people management side of things. I think that's that's my understanding. That could be one culprint behind why was driven that. Is that true, first of all? And and what's else behind that that we are just going promoting technical people into this management roles?

SPEAKER_00 8:12

I I think you're you're spot on with that. That's the first point of it. The other piece of it is there is very few companies that truly have a leadership development program. In my 30 plus years in my career, and I've worked for a number of companies, there's only one company that I worked for that truly had a management development program that taught people how to lead other people. They taught them, they also taught them how to find to read a financial statement, but they spent a lot of time focusing on the emotional intelligence and the and the social skills of what a manager has to have in order to be successful. And that organization had a great impact on on how I manage and how I lead, but it it's something that is desperately missing. When we think about it, we've gotten so bottom line, profit-driven, focused, we forget about the future and the fact that we have to develop people. When when leaders look at organizations and they say or they read the newspaper and they say that the average person has works for 10 different companies or whatever the number is in the course of their career, they start to view employees as disposable and replaceable. And they don't look at what that's going to cost them on the bottom line. But if they really understood that, they would invest in training people. I mentioned earlier that the average attrition rate in the US is between 10 and 15%. My historical attrition rate, voluntary attrition rate, has never been over 5%. And so when I sought out a couple of years ago to start to what I what I call mentor in scale or at scale, I wanted to make sure I hit on the important things that would make someone successful and make them be a leader that other leaders would want to be like and would create high-producing teams that were loyal. And I've had that throughout my career. I've been blessed. I've worked for some great leaders in my career. And I've also worked for one or two that were not so good. But it's thankfully, there's more good leaders than there are poor leaders. But let's face it, there are poor leaders out there.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

Interesting. So I think the problem, as you mentioned, the financially you impact on a business, that's that's a huge impact because if you promote somebody's not a, you know, and you don't focus on a skill development, you promote somebody without a development to the certain role, you lost such your best tech resource, and and that the person's not going to be a very effective leader either, because you promote them in that position, right? So so you lose on both sides. It's a lose-lose kind of situation, both sides. You lost just your talent, and at the same time, you lost somebody who's not happy with that leadership position. Um what can business leaders so if somebody's on a role that you want to promote them to leadership, how does a success look like in that role, uh Jim? That you do, you know, somebody is doing a great job on a on a resource side and you want to promote, how does a sec how does that that that perspective change? And what is the success looks like in that new role that person taking on?

SPEAKER_00 11:38

In order for that person to be successful, number one, they have to have a mentor. I very much, and if when you read my book, I'm big on mentoring. And your mentor should not be your manager, because that manager would overinfluence you as opposed to an independent mentor. So I'm very big on mentoring. And that's one thing they should focus on. The other thing they should focus on is understanding how the organization wants people to lead. A lot of times, I call it a lack of leadership identity because they really don't understand who they need to become. It's not like they have to change their personality, but they have to change the way they operate. And they have to be concerned about things that they never had to be concerned about before. And so when you you when you look at what I call the six pillars of essential effective leadership, they all have a role in building a tighter organization that works together, that collaborates together, and that is loyal. And and the the biggest thing that comes out of it, and what employees need today more than ever, is a feeling of psychologically safe in that position. The world's a dangerous place today. And employees, as soon as they don't feel that safety net, they start to disengage. And that's where these skill sets come into play. As AI becomes more and more a part of our lives, leaders have to be there to perform differently because they're gonna have access to so much data that they're not gonna know how to deal with it. I don't my personal belief is AI will will have a great will be great for certain aspects of people's businesses, but it's not gonna replace everybody. And it cannot replace a leader. And if you if you build your team following my roadmap, you you won't be replaced because things that are on my on my roadmap, like empathy and compassion, AI can't replicate.

SPEAKER_01 14:04

Yeah. So you you to you know what great point you mentioned there, uh, Jim. If you look at it

Identifying Leadership Problems

SPEAKER_01 14:10

10 years ago, 20 years ago, the challenge was people don't have the right information. They don't know, you know, it was providing right information at the right time so people can build it. But that challenge is not there anymore. Now we have too much information, too much, uh, you know, too many different versions of information. So the challenge is navigating and staying focused on uh on the right information instead of getting confused and going in a 20 to 20 different direction, you want to focus on the right direction. That is, I think, one of the chapters in your book, focus as well, as you mentioned. So let's talk about the six pillars. So if you can outline what are those six pillars are, and I also want to understand, Jim, is that as as the roles get built in a company, as you know, there's an inflection point in a business. You know, what's in challenges are in 10 million is not gonna be the same as 20, 30 million people can have a different challenge as they grow companies. These pillars are they some some take most, some some are more important or less important on a different different states and in a in a to different growth in a business, or are they all of them equally important any given time?

SPEAKER_00 15:09

I think they're all equally. Well, first off, they're timeless. These six six characteristics will never go away. That's number one. Okay. Number two, I I think is people, and they're not difficult to implement. They're they're easy to implement, but they're difficult to really well, we'll get into it, but to really focus on them and pay attention. But I'll tell you the six pillars and then we'll start with a couple of stories and on a few of them. So the the non-negotiable pillar and the non-negotiable characteristic

The Role of Mentorship in Leadership

SPEAKER_00 15:46

is integrity. And integrity and transparency. If you don't have that as a leader today, your team will never follow you. If they don't believe that you're giving them the straight answer or the truth or the whatever, they're never going to be loyal. And if you can't get that loyalty with them, they're not going to collaborate with others, and you're not going to have a team that's going to be respected throughout the organization. So to me, integrity is non-negotiable.

SPEAKER_01 16:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:23

The next two pillars are compassion and empathy. And we'll talk about those as well. They're different because you can always show compassion for someone by saying, I'm sorry that's happening to you, or whatever, but you can't necessarily fix it. But when you show empathy with someone, you can find a way to try to help them and help them get through that. So they're they're they aren't the same thing. And and leaders sometimes get them confused, but but that's because leaders have never been taught how to deal with compassion and empathy. And trust me, it takes a long time to be able to notice when you need to show compassion and when you need to show empathy.

SPEAKER_01 17:11

So let me unpack that. So with what you're saying, that compassion, we don't have to solve the problem, we're not trying to fix it, it's just being compassionate about something. Is is that true? That's how I can show you.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

Yes, I see. So so for example, I'll tell you a story that's in the book from when I'm from when I was in seventh grade. So I was in seventh grade, and there was a young man who came into the class who had recently moved to the community. And one day in class, and I think it was a math class, he started pushing and shoving a young woman in the class. And I said to him, he needed to stop that. And so then he came towards me and he says, You're not what are you gonna do about it? I said, If you hit her again, I'll handle it. And he went over and he shoved her into the wall. Now the teachers in the room, I went over and I threw him over the teacher's desk. A little tussle ends up. Next thing you know, the principal and the guidance counselor are called, and they're up in the room. The two of us get escorted to the principal's office. The principal advises us that we'll be given a letter to take home and that one will be coming by certified mail, but that we were both going to be suspended for the for one day because they have a brand new policy that whoever fights on school grounds is going to get suspended. She then dismisses the other employee. The principal of the school had grown up with my dad. My dad was a World War II veteran. My dad was very firm on the fact that fighting was not tolerated. Also, we also had lost a family member. My brother, I had a brother who was killed in Vietnam. And so my dad took it very seriously from a military perspective that you're not going to cause fights, you're not going to get in it, you're going to be a peacemaker. So after the young man left, the principal said to me, She said, Jim, I know it wasn't your fault. I know you were defending a young lady. I believe you did the right thing, but I have no control over the rules that the superintendent and board of education have established. And I will make sure your father knows that you did the right thing. That's showing compassion. She couldn't fix what this she couldn't fix the situation and take away the suspension, but she could show the compassion so that it it wouldn't actually impact me as greatly because she knew my dad would respond negatively. So when after she dismisses this other young man, the the principal who grew up with my dad and knew what home life my parents were not people who beat us or anything like that, but she knew my dad and she said, I want to make sure that you know that I believe you did the right thing. But the rules are set by the Board of Education, and I have to carry them out. But I'm gonna make sure your dad knows that I believe you did the right thing. So we were the young man was sent home. Somebody had to come pick him up. I usually rode my bicycle to school, so I had got to ride home and I got home early, and my mom was there, and she said, You're home a little early, why? And I said, Well, this letter will explain it. And I handed her the letter, and she read the letter and she said, What happened? And I said, This new kid in class was beating on and hitting a young lady and pushing her and shoving her,

The Journey to Leadership Development

SPEAKER_00 21:13

and I told him to stop. He didn't, so I made him stop. And she said, So you had a fight at school. I said, I did, but I didn't start it. I finished it. And she said, Well, you're gonna have to wait for your dad to come home, and then we'll have to discuss it. I was very fearful of my dad, and and again, not in a negative way, it would never, I don't think our parents ever hit us once, but at that moment the telephone rings and my mother answers it, and it's a school principal. And she said, Can you go to your room, Jim? And she said, It's the principal of the school. And I said, Okay, so I go to my room when she's done talking to the principal, she comes to my room and she said. The principal says you did the right thing. She said, I still need to talk to your dad, and then we'll talk to you. My dad comes home. They're talking. My mom then calls for me, or my dad calls for me to come downstairs. I come downstairs. He said, Have a seat. I sat at the table and I was just scared, stiffless, of what about was about to happen. And he said, I understand you had a fight at school today. I know you know we don't we don't believe in fighting. And I also know that the principal believes you did the right thing. Because otherwise that that young lady would have been hurt. As a result of that, there'll be no punishment for you at home. And I said, Okay. And then he said to me, What are you going to do tomorrow? And I said, I don't know. I said, I guess I'll stay in my room all day. He said, No, you don't understand. He said, What are you going to do tomorrow? You have a day off. What are you going to do? I said, But I did something wrong. I probably need to stay in my room all day. He said, No. What do you really want to do tomorrow? I said, I don't know, it's spring. I'd like to go fishing. He said, I think that's a great idea. And he said, Look, you did the right thing. You know the rules, but you did the right thing. You go fishing tomorrow. Have a great time. But please do not go near the school because you're not allowed on school property tomorrow. I said, Don't worry, Dad. I will not go to the school. So, in that situation, had that principal not done that, I probably would have been grounded at home for some period of time, maybe a lifetime, I don't know. But she really didn't solve it, but she influenced it and made it easier. And so that's compassion.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

So, how does that differ than empathy? Empathy, you you're saying that you have to do something about it, or or is it still uh so let me get, I'll tell you a work story for empathy.

SPEAKER_00 24:12

Um, I worked for a technology company from 2000 to 2007, and we made health insurance claim systems for companies in the United States. And we at the time had Windows-based products, but we had a product line that was still green screen technology. You probably remember those days.

SPEAKER_01 24:34

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 24:35

And one of the teams that I had under me was a team of 25 people that were engineers, support people, and account managers who managed the green screen technology client base. And the engineers did all the upgrades and all of those things. Well, we made a corporate decision that we were going to sunset the green screen technology and transition people to the Windows technology, and in that process, these 20-some people would have their jobs eliminated. And I had to be the one to tell them, and I didn't know what to tell them, but I knew a couple of things. Number one, it would take eight to twelve months to implement the new product. And I said, okay, so I've got it, I've got to keep enough people here to support those customers until they roll off one over one. And we had anticipated it would take three to four years. And so I wrestled with it. I called my mentor. My mentor said, good luck. So that meant, which wasn't didn't help me any. But I really thought hard, and I finally came down to what would I want my manager to tell me if this was happening to me. So I met with the employees as a group, and again, my

Integrity as a Foundation for Leadership

SPEAKER_00 26:05

goal was to ensure that we had enough people staying on board to support the client base, meaning they can't leave early. Right? So I met with them and I made them three promises. Promise number one, everyone would have a minimum of eight months notice because a contract would have to be signed to begin implementation of the newer version of the products to the companies. So everybody would have a minimum of eight months notice. Promise number two. If you wanted to stay with the company in a similar role, but on the new products, I would make training available during the daytime, not at night, not in the morning, not at lunchtime. I would make training available so that when it was your time to leave your position, you could easily go over to the new products. I didn't stop there. I made a third promise. I said to everyone, if you decide you don't want to stay here, I will personally help you get a job outside of the organization that fits your professional skill set and fits your family's financial needs as your current job does. Gave them three promises. Something interesting happened. First thing is nobody left before it was time. Something else happened two years into this transition. I get a call from HR, and they want to come and visit with me. Let's get it on the table. Nobody likes HR coming to visit with you. Of course. You never know.

SPEAKER_01 27:59

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

And two women walked in. I felt better that my boss wasn't with them, and they didn't have an empty box or a security guard. So so I invited them in, they sat down, and they said, We want to talk to you about the employee satisfaction survey we recently did. And I said, Oh, didn't we do that like two months ago? And they said, Yeah. And they said, Well, we have a couple of questions because we're really confused. And I said, Well, how can I help you? She said, Well, you're downsizing that team in California because we're sunsetting the product. I said, Yes. And they said, Well, that team has the highest satisfaction rating of all employees in a 20,000-person company. We want to know what you're doing that keeps them from running out the door and jumping ship. And I said, Well, I didn't know what to do, but I made them three promises. And I told them the three promises. And I said, My goal was no customer would be left behind without enough staff to support them. And we were successful to the end of all of the transitions. And HR was so impressed with the way that I handled it, they actually said, Jim, you took all the worry away from them. They knew their job would be going away, but you put it on your shoulders that you would get them another job or get them retrained into the new technology that we have. And she said, they had nothing to worry about. So, in essence, I solved the problem for them with empathy. I never expected them to have the highest satisfaction level of employees because even if I was in that position, I would still be questioning my future and what my company is doing for me. But they didn't. They really believed and trusted me, and and nobody left before it was time. HR ended up taking what I did and making that policy for future departments, should we have to downsize them. Because of the Yeah, very interesting.

SPEAKER_01 30:25

Kudos to you that you handle it that way. But in these two examples, clearly, you know, it shows difference between compassion and empathy. But yet, you know, those those three promises you made, I think that those promises was a result that you know for all that that you know the you know success you had there were interesting. So business leader, when they when they're trying to grow a company, uh Jim, when they're trying to scale the company, you want to get back to that because I know a lot of people uh that where we are economically, they're everybody trying to scale the business. These these these uh you know, the six pillars are always part of that, you know, what I'm taking is a part of that the role forever. You know, it's just gonna be part of that, what you focus on. But on based on what problem you're trying to solve, you know, um, when you're trying to grow a company early on, you don't know is it a leadership problem or is it a sales problem or is it a revenue problem, what the problem is. What point how how do how do people assess that? Listen, what are we up against is a is a leadership problem. It's not simply just a sales or revenue

Starting Your Leadership Journey

SPEAKER_01 31:23

or a marketing problem. We are we are up against some of the leadership leadership problems. How do people assess how do they understand that?

SPEAKER_00 31:30

I think you can assess it very easily by looking at where the voluntary attrition is the highest and and figure out because that's a clear indication of poor leadership. The Society of Human Resources two years ago did a study on why people leave a company. And this is not people who are managed out because of poor performance, these are voluntary terminations. They came up with a top 10 list of why people leave a company, and seven of them are directly related to their leader or manager. The other ones have to do with salary or benefits and a couple of other things. But seven of the 10 are directly related to the leader. So when you see departments with 15% attrition or 10% attrition, you have a leadership problem. You don't necessarily have a production problem, you have a leadership problem. And so that's the metric that people should be looking at. But they always look at sales first, they always look at different operations to see where the failures are. And in many cases, it's an identity, it's a leadership identity problem. And that's what the six pillars solve.

SPEAKER_01 32:50

So when you say a leadership identity problem, is this something from a top-down? They haven't defined what leadership looks like, or is it a leadership identity for each position that we up, you know, we are looking at each leadership position that we're looking at? Is my position or is my company as at as a whole?

SPEAKER_00 33:06

I say it's both. And the reason I say it's both is there's companies that have asked me to do workshops to all their leaders to get them all doing the six pillars. In fact, I spoke at a conference in December, and I I was told in exchange for being there, they said, if you'd like to sell books, we'll set up a table for you. One woman bought 15 books. One was for her, 14 were for her direct reports. And she said, I'm gonna start changing my our company's our company's culture around leadership. So it can start at the top and instill all the way down. If the if the person at the top doesn't operate with integrity, it integrity will not operate anywhere. It's not gonna be existing anywhere. And that eventually that organization is gonna crumble.

SPEAKER_01 34:05

You mentioned mentoring as you mentioned mentoring, setting up a mentoring that you're a big proponent of that. What is the best way to set up this mentoring uh you know set up in a company? Is it cross-departments, or you have to bring somebody from outside who can see all the blind spots that that people are up against? What is ideal they're setting up this mentoring for for all the leaders?

SPEAKER_00 34:25

So I think there's important. So when somebody wants to have a mentor, it could be mentor or mentors. I have more than one. And so in the case of a company that has a sponsored mentor program, like we had at this technology company, one of the responsibilities I had as a leader was to mentor somebody else in the organization. And I could either pick that person out of a list of high potential people that had been identified, or anyone else that I thought had some potential that didn't work directly for me, or any employee that was told you qualify for having a mentor could choose the mentor they wanted. And that does a couple of things. One of the biggest things that it does is it shows that individual other managers and how they run their operation and how they lead other people, which may be different than their current manager. The second thing that it does is it instills this culture across the organization because everyone's going to lead and behave in the same way. And that's a culture shift. So an organization may start with just one area where they may start and say, let's do it top down. But either way, it's a change in the the identity of the leadership or the leadership culture that an organization is going to have.

SPEAKER_01 36:00

How about the top leadership, either presidency or the company, when they need that, you know, how do they get the mentorships?

SPEAKER_00 36:08

Same way. Now they could choose a mentor from the board, they could choose a mentor from the outside. So I would typically, and anytime I mentored somebody who worked within the organization that I did, not necessarily in my department, I always recommended that they had a resource outside of the company as well. So they could get an independent, they could get independent input from someone they knew and trusted who may or may not even be a manager in another organization. And I've often offered, I've always offered, including on this podcast, if someone has trouble finding a mentor, I can't take on being your mentor, but I can certainly help you create a list of people and take you through some questions for how to choose a mentor and and help you with that. So again, trying to help people get through this. But usually the organizations that have them, and again, I've only been in one, I've actually had two, I've worked for two companies that had formal mentor programs.

SPEAKER_01 37:13

Well, very interesting. Because Jim, you know, we all come from technical background, and there's so many moving parts in a business, whether it's financial, whether it's revenue, whether it's just payroll. There's so many moving parts, and that's where you have a lot of blind spots. You're not going to be able to focus on every little area. And I think that's where the mentor, as you mentioned, comes in. Help you, first of all, identify some of the blind spots and then help you maybe, you know, how to get over some of those blind spots. So I think uh it's very important for business owners, a business leader to have those mentors to identify those blind spots and then get you know go to the companies dealing with those uh blind spots.

SPEAKER_00 37:51

Totally agree. Totally agree. And and and and understanding them. And and that's why having two mentors, you may use one just for HR-related issues, you may use one for just business issues, you may use them both for the same issues that you encounter. The important thing is to have them. Yeah, because it'll make you better, it'll only make you better.

SPEAKER_01 38:14

Yeah, yeah. Very interesting. So let's talk about your journey, Jim. How do you get so good at this? Uh what how do you decide it that you're gonna focus on helping business leaders and leadership development side of things? You know, if you talk about your journey, how do you get so good at this? Practice.

SPEAKER_00 38:29

Well, it's interesting because one of the things that I'm very frustrated with, and this is a global problem, not a US only problem, but a global problem. We in this world, in corporate world, in governments, everywhere, have gotten away from integrity. I truly believe we have gotten removed from integrity. And I believe it started 20 years ago. I'm just taking a guess, throwing a dart at the dartboard. But you know, when I was growing up, it was always take care of your neighbor, help each other, do, you know, we become a very selfish society. And and to me, that's where integrity comes into play. And if anything, what I want to do is help impact the integrity of organizations. If you have a leader, a CEO that lacks integrity, you typically see that every year or two, they change out half of the people that report to them. And they do that to hold to hide their own failures or inferiorities. And I call that changing the chairs on the Titanic. Moving people in and out is not going to change anything. The Titanic is still going to sink, but it's going to take a little bit longer to sink because that leader or CEO is hiding behind the fact that he's blaming other people for the problems.

SPEAKER_01 40:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 40:04

So, and that also shows a lack of integrity and transparency. And so it's interesting. I I have led my life with integrity, and I'll tell you how it started. This will be my last story. No, unless we go for four hours.

SPEAKER_01 40:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 40:22

When I graduated college in 1983, I ran for a local city government position in an election, a city councilman in New Jersey, small town, 12,000 people. And I won. And about two weeks after the election, I wasn't even sworn in yet. I got a call from the city manager who invited me in to speak with him. And we started to talk. And he said, you know, he said, I want to ask you to do me a favor. He said, At night, when you go to bed and you put your head on the pillow, I want you to ask yourself one question. That question is, did I do anything today for my own personal self-benefit that was at the expense of another individual, group of individuals, or organizations? And he said, if you answer yes to that question, before you can rest peacefully, you need to do two things. You need to figure out how to unwind it and how to never repeat it again. And that hit me like a brick. I've asked myself that question every night since November 1983. I've never answered that question with a yes. And if if I can live my life that way, others can. I've had a very, very successful career. I've had people who have come to work for me two or three different times in their career. And a lot of times I'm the first phone call when someone's deciding to leave their current job to look for something new to see if I have any openings or if I could help them. But that's the difference when you operate with transparency and integrity. And we're missing that in the world today. And I know it's only me, and I can't go out there with my white flag and run down the street and just convert everybody. But one manager or one leader at a time will make a difference.

SPEAKER_01 42:42

And what I find, Jim, is uh the new generation, the next generation that's coming out of university and colleges as young folks, they are looking for those as an example. They are so hungry for that. They're not looking for somebody to preach them. They're looking for, hey, if you if you want to run a company with integrity and all that stuff, be an example. Show me the example that you're doing it. So there's so much putting on a business leader's. You know, I see that because I hired a lot of young people in my business. So I see that they're looking for example. They they you know, they're not going to buy whatever you tell them. They they they want you to be an example of that.

SPEAKER_00 43:18

Absolutely correct. And and they're very sensitive to having that psychological safety. And that's very important for everyone these days. Very important. So I you know, I think if we're gonna get back on a positive track across businesses, across governments, etc., we have to start operating with more integrity. Very interesting.

SPEAKER_01 43:46

Good. So what what inspired you to write this book, Ajim?

SPEAKER_00 43:49

So about two years ago, I started thinking, what am I gonna do when I retire? And I didn't know, I didn't know, I said, well, I I could go be a Walmart reader. I could do this. I could do some consulting. And then I thought, you know what? I bet I could mentor people at scale. And so I started thinking about it. And I said, you know, in order to mentor people at scale, I have to have some credibility. So that's what led me to writing the book. And what I did is I sat down and went through every person I mentored over the last 25 years and made a list of all the characteristics that I thought they were missing and that I worked with them on. And then I found the six common ones that were across most of the individuals. And they became the six pillars for the book. Now I started with a list of about 15 to 18 characteristics, but I said I have to make the book small enough and not too large so that people could feel the difference in themselves and in the way they led, but also it would be implementable and it wouldn't scare them. Like I don't need to learn 25 different new things over the next eight weeks. Yeah. So that's how we got there.

SPEAKER_01 45:14

Very interesting book. I think uh one of the the way you know people should use a book is uh go through a book and then then run as a bench against where you're running as a business, and it will give you the gap where you are and where you want to be, right? So it's it's a very uh great way of benchmarking because it's small enough book, and also there's a lot of interesting stories. So when you're going through the book, one thing you can do is simply take a look, you know, assess that against the book where you are with those six pillars, and it will give you some sort of a gap analysis that listen, this is where you are, this is where you want to be, and then you can work your way up to uh to the whatever the you know the goal you want to get to.

SPEAKER_00 45:48

That is correct, and you could also come back outside of the book. I also have workshops that I can do for corporations that are based on the principles, it's a three-day workshop, or it's an eight-week cohort of meeting once a week via Zoom, and as a small group, it could be with people you know, or it could be people that are just randomly assigned based on the date they enroll, and we take them through the same program. The only thing is we're doing the role plays over Zoom, and you know, everything's being done electronically versus in a in a classroom, but they get the same benefit of it. And I tell people, you will notice a difference in yourself in 14 days. And if you haven't, if you haven't, I have failed my at my job.

SPEAKER_01 46:40

Very trusting. I'm sure everybody's gonna know find the difference, Jim. Where can people find you? How can they connect with you, Jims?

SPEAKER_00 46:47

So I'm on LinkedIn, I'm on Facebook, I'm on Instagram. They all they have to do is put my name in, and it I should pop up. There is another Jim Carlo in healthcare in the United States. So you make sure it's the right one, but you'll be able to tell from the posts and things like that, because I post on leadership all the time. But uh yeah, sorry, go ahead. Or they can find me on the internet. I have a website, it's just my name all squashed together with no spaces or periods between first name and last name.com. So just jump our load.com.

SPEAKER_01 47:19

I'm going to include a link below this video. People can click a button and some simply just reach out to you. But yeah, business owners who are watching, business leaders, any leadership position. You know, if you're watching this uh podcast or listening to us on the on a channel, he you know, there's always going to be uh a you know blind spot in a business. There's gonna be also a gap. That's where we need a people like Jim. Jim, you know, with great discussion, you know, enjoy talking to you, but a business owner watching, click a button below, reach out to for reach out to Jim, have a conversation. Who knows where the discussion is gonna take you? But more importantly, get a copy of the book. You know, you can re-assess your business where you are, where you want to be, just by reading a book and then reach out to uh Jim for conversation. Who knows? You know, I learned so much from you, uh Jim, for last half an hour, kind of 45 minutes conversation. I'm sure business leaders who reach out to you, they're gonna get a totally different perspective uh just by talking to you. So I encourage everybody to click a button, reach out to Jim for conversation. Jim, before we go, I want to thank you for your time. It was a great discussion. Any message you want to leave for business leaders or business owners who simply you know trying to start this journey for for leadership, mentoring, anywhere they can start from. What is something small they can start from and they can assess their position where they're at?

SPEAKER_00 48:31

So the first thing, the first thing I would tell them is the biggest lie in business is that leaders are born that way. And that is not the case. Leaders are developed and they're refined, and it never that development never ends. So if you're being told you weren't born to be a leader, don't accept that. Anybody can be a leader if they want to be, if they want to put the effort in and they want to do it. I would tell you the first thing that I would notice uh out of an employee population is those that I feel are transparent and have integrity. Start showing up to work with that, and people will notice.

SPEAKER_01 49:18

Such a great advice, Aja. You know, definitely, yeah, you know, if you want to start, those are the two attributes. You know, especially you can build that into your recruiting process as well. When you're hiring people, look for those two things integrity and look for for uh you know transparency. If you can get those right, and you can build everything else upon it.

SPEAKER_00 49:35

That absolutely it's the foundation. It is absolutely the foundation for everything else.

SPEAKER_01 49:40

Wow, good stuff. Thank you so much for time, Jim. It was a great discussion. Learned so much. Hope we talk in the future soon. I hope so as well. Thank you for having me. Thank you. If you enjoyed this discussion, I'm I recommend to check one of these discussions on the top. Um, also don't forget to go back to that channel homepage. There's a playlist created just for you, whether you're looking for business discussion, technology discussion, or process discussion for business growth, all those categories are there, and I'm sure you will find something that you enjoy from those categories as well. So don't forget to send us your feedback, subscribe to this channel for any upcoming videos. Your feedback is very important to us, allow us to focus on the right discussion to deliver value for you on a weekly basis. So enjoy until next time. Thank you for your time.