Building Resilient Teams & Scaling Smart | Sue Goodwin on Leadership

Building resilient teams and scaling smart drives business impact through enhanced adaptability, faster growth, and sustained performance. Leaders foster trust and agility, reducing turnover while enabling efficient expansion. This approach minimizes risks, boosts innovation, and strengthens competitive edge in volatile markets

In this episode, I sat down with Sue Goodwin, President of GM Packaging. Her passion for business began in her mid-twenties launching a Toronto B2B ad agency. Hands-on and driven, she mastered building thriving companies, strong cultures, and competitive edge. As President, Sue is transforming GM Packaging through teamwork, mentoring, and inspiration. 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/sue-goodwin-1482b020/
https://gmpackaging.com/

Chapters

00:00 Onboarding and Team Culture
03:03 Sue Goodwin's Journey and Entrepreneurial Spirit
05:59 The Grind Mindset in Business
08:55 Understanding Team Dynamics and Performance
12:05 Government Policies and Support for Entrepreneurs
14:56 Building Soft Skills in a Diverse Workforce
18:04 Advice for New Entrepreneurs
20:46 The Value of Networking and Community Support

Transcript

Onboarding and Team Culture

SPEAKER_04 0:00

One of the big challenges right now obviously is the economy. Moving in particular, the moving industry is very tightly tied to the economy and what's going on with the Bank of Canada and rates. I think one of the key things, like I said, when I first came and I put my feet on the ground here and I job shadowed everyone, I did the jobs with them. So I actually wasn't just sort of job like job shadowing them and making notes. I was like, show me how you do this. So I think that in and of itself gave everyone a sense of, oh, she really means business here. She's not just a note taker and then nothing's gonna happen. She really wants to understand how we do what we do. The other thing I realized is not everyone, when you get into a meeting or you get into a huddle, uh, has the ability to think on their feet or want to respond on their feet. Some people just want to take some time, digest it, process it, and come back. And I used to think at the beginning that they just weren't interested or they'd sort of tuned out, but it wasn't that at all. It was just their style of the way that they needed to process what we were doing. So recognizing that and giving them time, I found there became more engagement. I think you really have to understand your team. And sometimes you have to bring in outside expertise to do that. I had my team profiled. Um we use something, I belong to a group called Tech Canada, um, but there's people within that, and there's a company called Predictive Success. And it's probably one of the best profiling companies that I've ever met. It really talks about, you know, getting the right person in the right seat, but understanding someone from basically their heart, their head, and also their experience. Because people come with their heart and their and their, or sorry, they come with their, you know, their head and their briefcase, their experience. But sometimes we don't really know what motivates us.

Sue Goodwin's Journey and Entrepreneurial Spirit

SPEAKER_01 1:58

Hi there, welcome to Business Leadership Podcast. In this episode, I had a discussion with Sue Goodwin. Sue is a president of a GM Packaging Limited in Canada. She began her career in the mid-20s, launching a churn of B2B ad agency, gaining hands-on experience in a building, thriving business and strong cultures. At GM Packaging, she drives transformation through teamwork, mentoring, and inspiration. In her spare time, she enjoys kettlebells, learning Italians, reading, and community volunteers. Now we had a discussion on a variety of different topics around the business, leadership, and operational challenges, and she talks about her approach to growing a company. Also, where I see a lot of struggle for many business owners is how to handle the people side of skill set, you know, how to find the right people to grow your company, how to find the right skill set, how to assess people, and how to avoid all the mistakes you make around people uh during in your business when you try to grow a company. Hope you find a value in this discussion as much as I did. And if you do find value in this discussion, please subscribe, share, and comment below. We are working hard to bring you conversations with the business owners, coaches, consultants, subject matter experts to help you build and grow your business. So your support and your feedback keep us delivering great value in every episode. So thank you again for your time. Please welcome Sue Goodwin. Hi, guess welcome to Business Leadership Podcast. Today our guest is Sue Godwin. Sue, uh, you know, your business GM packaging. I'm looking forward to learning what the business is about and also your journey as well. I mean, it's not the first business is, you know, you've been involved in other businesses. So I'm hoping that we can provide some perspective to the people who are listening, you know, what they have to go through in order to uh, you know, for format, you know, develop a different companies. So thank you so much for time and welcome to the podcast.

SPEAKER_04 3:40

Thank you very much for inviting me, and I'm it's a pleasure to be here.

SPEAKER_01 3:44

Okay, that's so walk us through what GM Package is about, but you know, before we get into further details.

SPEAKER_04 3:49

Sure. So GM Packaging is a packaging distributor. So we sell packaging, shipping, and moving supplies. The more majority of our products are Canadian made, they're made in Canada. We actually use a lot of vendors that are located right here in Ontario, as well as Quebec and Manitoba. So we're quite proud about that. We do have some offshore products just because of price points, but we try to be basically a one-stop shop for any of our customers. So we have a very varied customer base, which was great for us during COVID. Sometimes packaging distributors will just stay in one lane. We probably have an eight-lane highway, which augers very well for us. So we we also sell to other distributors like ourselves. We sell to e-commerce clients, movers, self-storage, UPS stores. So very varied. And then also the general public, because we do have a retail store and it's open seven days a week. So for people who are moving or companies that are moving, they're welcome to come in and purchase their moving supplies from us.

SPEAKER_01 4:55

Got it. So is it a province wide, nationwide, or do you cross a border as well?

SPEAKER_04 4:59

We it's it's it's actually province wide. It's BC to Newfoundland. We really don't sell anything into the US at all.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

Got it. So tariff didn't tariff didn't impact your business. That's what I'm trying to get.

SPEAKER_04 5:10

It it did impact our business from the self-storage standpoint because we do have a large uh distributor down there that we get our self-storage stock and products from. So there were products that were subject to a tariff coming into Canada. And surprisingly enough, the one other product that was quite surprising for us was tape. So we purchased our tape from Canadian-owned companies. We did not realize, however, that a lot of them manufactured in the US. And that that was one of the products that was subject to a 40% tariff. So yeah, we were sort of scrambling to find where we could purchase tape from. And in some cases, it just got down to sorry, we don't have eight different types of tape to offer you. We have four, unless you want to pay the tariff.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:59

No one does. Right.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

So so what do you see? You know, you talked to a lot of business owners, uh, you know, and and also in your business. So what do you see some of the challenges, some of the opportunities looks like in your business?

SPEAKER_04 6:09

So I think one of the big challenges right now, obviously, is the economy. Moving, in particular, the moving industry is very tightly tied to the economy and what's going on with the Bank of Canada and rates. So when we see things tend to get a little easier for people in terms of their mortgages and being able to purchase great points for their mortgage, we see the moving industry start to take an uptick and it definitely accelerates. It's interesting though, it's one of those industries where there's really from year to year, it's so hard to predict. So this year, believe it or not, the moving industry has been extremely robust. Normally after Thanksgiving, middle of October, it tends to soften and then it picks back up around the end of April and sort of end of March and April. But not this year. This year, it has been extremely robust. They've been, we have our movers coming in all the time, and and we're very thankful for our moving.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

So we're like movers. It's only a commercial moving, business side, or also residential moving.

SPEAKER_04 7:07

Everything is residential, commercial. Yeah. Our movement. And and I would say that our customer base, we tend, especially with the movers, we tend to gravitate or target small to medium-sized movers. We don't really go after the big, huge movers. There's other people in our industry that cater to them. And some of those people we sell to, and we're very respective of we don't want to basically get into a competition with them. We don't mind supporting them, but we we don't want to go head to head with them.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

Got it, got okay. So, you know, how how long have you been uh running this business? You know, you you purchase this business, I if I'm uh understanding correctly from our previous discussion, right?

SPEAKER_04 7:43

Right.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

And okay, and and uh how does the opportunity come along and what is the opportunity in a business looks like too for growth?

Understanding Team Dynamics and Performance

SPEAKER_04 7:50

So it's interesting when I look at my past, I I it's I call myself a serendipitous entrepreneur. I've never been one of these people who has from a very young age said, I want to be an entrepreneur. I just happen to either be at the right place at the right time and because of circumstances that are outside of my control or opportunities. So I have been working with GM packaging on and off more from a strategic planning background than feet on the ground operations. And I had an opportunity in 2019 to actually come out and help the company. They were struggling with their operations, they were struggling with their hires. And so I came out in 2019 and did a really deep dive. One of the things I'm very keen about is spending time with the people who are in the positions. There's many people at GM Packaging who have been here much longer than I have. So I wanted to ensure that I was walking the walk with them. So I spent about two to three weeks just job shadowing them, asking them questions, what's working for you, what's not working for you. If this was your company, what would you change? And then I created a report. And that report I presented to the owner at the time. And it was obvious there was a lot of changes that needed to be made. There was a lot of missing structures within the company. We didn't have standard operating procedures, people had hadn't really had performance reviews, they didn't really have a sense of, you know, what's my role. So people were then creating their role, thinking, okay, this is what I should be doing for the company. So from that, COVID hit, and the other director lived out of province and was unable to come back to Toronto for to Mississauga for a number of years. So I ran the company. And when he had the opportunity to return, he said, I would just like to sell a company. And I thought, okay, well, I've been running it. Why don't I buy you out?

SPEAKER_01 9:49

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:50

So that's how it came about.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

You knew about everything you need to know about the business before you even got into that, right? So a lot of operational challenges, HR challenges. You knew all those challenges before you would take another. That's that's very low risk.

SPEAKER_04 10:03

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you you're you really it is very low risk. 100%.

SPEAKER_01 10:08

Yeah. Got it. So, what is the potential looks like in this business?

SPEAKER_04 10:12

It's huge. I mean, the the packaging, I think the whole packaging industry, there's lots of potential. I don't think we have really even tapped, you know, the we're at the tip of the iceberg right now. There's so much more uh within all of the lanes that we sell into. And I see that because one of the other things that GM packaging has done very well, it had a very, very good foundation, I will say that, is belonging to the associations. So we belong to both the Canadian Association of Movers and we belong to the Canadian Association for Self-Storage. And so supporting those associations, letting people who know who are in those industries know that we're a member of those associations and going to the trade shows has really been invaluable because you really get to meet the people who are out there, help them navigate if they're brand new to the industry, how they should set up, either whether it's a moving industry or whether it's a self-storage industry. So I think that has been key in terms of the whole sort of uh operations of GM packaging and the potential for the business.

SPEAKER_01 11:17

Interesting. You know, you mentioned that the associations also, you know, we were talking about pre-discussion. You mentioned collaboration is very important. What do you mean by collaboration? How do you see that collaboration in a business?

Government Policies and Support for Entrepreneurs

SPEAKER_04 11:28

So when I first came in, like I said, there was no job descriptions. So one of the first things I said is we need to start creating job descriptions descriptions and standard operating procedures because it was clear that people really were just doing what they thought they should do. And there was very much a lack of culture. There was this sort of us and them identity going on, which had created issues within the company and the dynamics of the company. So when we started to create the job descriptions, I not only brought the people who were doing the job in, but everyone else who would be impacted by those particular jobs. So we really did it as a team because I look at job descriptions as works in progress. They're not set there for ever. It's like you have to look at it, work with it, tweak it, it evolves. So that was one of the things that we did together. And then the next thing was after we had done that for a while, I actually had someone come in with the program lean. I don't know if you're familiar with it. It's also Sigma Six. Yes. So as a team, we did that. So then now everyone had been working with their job descriptions, their standard operating procedures, and then we just took it to the next level. We were just like, okay, how can we, how can we change, you know, the things that we've put in place? What can we do to make it even better? And and that was great. And everyone, everyone went through their white and yellow belt levels and really enjoyed the process. And I think it gave everyone a better understanding, too, of how everyone's position within the company actually affected someone else in another department. Because I don't think that had really been communicated or that people didn't really have an understanding of what happens if this happens within their role and other people that are impacted later on down the line aren't a part of that process.

SPEAKER_01 13:21

Hmm. Very interesting. I think a lot of companies don't look at that way. Kudos to you to you know, I looked at it. But um, very interesting that you mentioned the job description, you treated that as a work in progress. Especially when you're making so many changes in a company, that's so crucial. Because a lot of people don't see and look at that way. Because if your company is changing, their responsibilities are changing, you want to treat that as a working document. So it's got to change with the company uh to reflect one of the changes. How did you go about it? If we talk about a little bit more in detail, like how what what is it takes to have that kind of process in a place where you can review that responsibilities and changes as a company changes?

Building Soft Skills in a Diverse Workforce

SPEAKER_04 13:59

So I think one of the key things, like I said, when I first came and I put my feet on the ground here and I job shadowed everyone, I did the jobs with them. So I actually wasn't just sort of job like job shadowing them and making notes. I was like, show me how you do this. So I think that in and of itself gave everyone a sense of, oh, she really means business here. She's not just a note taker and then nothing's gonna happen. She really wants to understand how we do what we do. Because, like I said, some of the people in this company, our chipper receiver has been with us over 22 years. We have someone in fabrication who's been here 17 years. They have so much historical knowledge that I don't have. So I was relying on them to tell me, you know, what's worked for you, what hasn't worked. What if we did this? And they could say, oh no, we've done that in the past, so that didn't work for these reasons. Yeah, that kind of thing. So and I and I think the other thing was just being able to involve them in the process. And by doing that, you know, because I had built trust with them, taking them through this process, and then I actually implemented it. Because I I think the hardest thing sometimes as a leader is we have we get everyone together, we create this amazing enthusiasm, and everyone's really excited. And we write down all these great ideas and things that we're going to do, and then nothing happens.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

Yeah. I think a couple of things you mentioned, uh, I'm trying to unpack very, very important. I think one of the things is leaders don't get involved on a hands-on, almost hands-on. They don't have to do the work, but understanding, sitting down with somebody, I think they they shy away from that, uh, especially if it's not their skill set that they have to uh they know very well. So they I think they shy away from that stuff. I think that's the first thing you mentioned. That definitely builds a trust, which you just mentioned, that you're gonna need later on when you make any changes. If you don't have the trust, how are you gonna make those changes? But in your case, you did that front, our front end work. So you know, definitely that that builds a trust. Um I think that's very critical for leaders to. I'm hoping that business leaders who are listening to us or watching us on a you, you know, on a on a YouTube can you know see that you know you gotta get, you know, understand every role in a company and you gotta know what what they're up against on a daily basis. And very often, I think back to your point in a collaboration, when you set up that environment and trust, your people have a better answer than you do when you're trying to solve problems most of the time.

Advice for New Entrepreneurs

SPEAKER_04 16:19

Exactly. Exactly. And I think the other thing it does is I'm truly a team leader. I believe in team. I we have what's called huddle. I love sports, so I I use a lot of sports analogies and and huddle we have uh when we're really busy, we're having huddle every day. When we're not, we we pull it back. But the whole idea of huddle is people to come together and just share. Sometimes it's something personal that's happened in their life. Sometimes it could be, I'm sorry, my light's going everywhere. Uh sometimes it could be they're having an issue with maybe a customer, or there's there's some sort of a blockade or an obstacle within the procedures. So it's just an opportunity for everyone to sort of share. And then as a team, sometimes we'll go away and we'll come back later, say, okay, because the other thing I realized is not everyone, when you get into a meeting or you get into a huddle, has the ability to think on their feet or want to respond on their feet. Some people just want to take some time, digest it, process it, and come back. And I used to think at the beginning that they just weren't interested or they'd sort of tuned out, but it wasn't that at all. It was just their style of the way that they needed to process what we were doing. So recognizing that and giving them time, I found there became more engagement. So, and I think that's the other thing. When you involve people in the process, they they do become part of the team. They they be they begin to feel valued and they begin to feel respected. And then they are like, okay, you know, I want to jump in. The other thing I started doing is we started cross-training a little bit. So people sort of understand the other person's role. Yeah, it's just so, and and I think again, just like for myself, it gave me insight into what that person would do on a day-to-day basis, right? So then how that affected their job. So if they were doing things that were maybe not following the standard operating procedure, how down the line that could affect someone else's job and their ability to get done what they needed to get done or get achieved.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

Yeah. Those hurdles, uh, you know, definitely the cross-training is important, but hurdles are very, very important. You know, we implemented, you know, when when we were struggling with the going through the similar changes, I was trying to implement it, I was getting a pushback. You know, what are we gonna do? You know, but you know, my approach is if I if something good we're gonna do, we're gonna do every day, not a miss a day, right? So that was my goal. And then they were saying, you know, maybe we need it twice a day. So let's no. Uh instead of doing an hour, why don't we bring it down to only 15 minutes every day? Very, very short, very short, you know, 15 minutes, quick, and I set up an agenda for those 15 minutes. Okay, first five minutes, next five minutes, and third five, very quick. And sometimes it only takes 10, 12 minutes. But my team knows that I'm never gonna miss a hurdle. I think that we did that, we've been doing that for the last four or five years, but that changed the company culture because every morning, 15 to 10, 15 minutes, we all get to talk, uh, we all get together, whether somebody working from home, we go, we go on a on a Teams or somebody in a company. But that's such a great concept. I'm glad you you're doing it. But I think uh what what you know where we've been very successful, I want to share with you that nine fifty nine to nine fifteen every day, it doesn't matter what day the uh the week is, every day that is a hurdle, and I'm there, you know, I'm making myself available. And sometimes somebody working on Saturday, if it's two people working on Saturday, I will still do with those two people. It's simply because you put that discipline in, you want that that that to be known that listen, nine to nine fifteen is a hurdle time. This is the time, it's very short, but it has a lot of effect on a team because you know everybody gets to talk and the connection, the bond they build with each other. I think that's that's what the result comes from.

SPEAKER_04 19:58

100%. And the thing, the other thing I think it does is it creates an identity for the company, which is something we didn't have, which you know, another word is culture, right? So now people have something that they can, okay. We actually have an identity, we understand what the culture of this company is. And I we used to have an expression, one of the former positions I had, and I was a partner in an ad agency. We used to say, if you don't know where you're going, any role will get you there.

unknown 20:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:25

And I and I think what are you trusting? And I think that's very true about a company without culture, because it really doesn't matter what you do, because everyone's just like I said before, they're just gonna do what they think they should be doing, but there's not gonna be any cohesion amongst the team, right?

The Value of Networking and Community Support

SPEAKER_01 20:42

And especially when you hire somebody new. When somebody new comes to the company, they see that you know, about themselves, how you run a business. And I think that that guessing, the strong message that this is a culture this company has.

SPEAKER_04 20:53

Exactly. And they feel like part of the team. You know, they actually, even though they're new and they realize, you know, I'm I'm brand new to this company, I'm brand new to this job, it's going to be a learning curve. But right away they're starting to feel accepted. And I think that's important again, when you have that kind of a welcoming, you have your proper standard operating procedures. It makes it easy to onboard people. They know what they're supposed to do, but above and beyond that, they see, okay, this is a cohesive team. This is a team that's working together and there's a lot of collaboration. So I'm looking forward to what I can lend to this particular team, what my skill says.

SPEAKER_01 21:30

So you got a lot handle a lot of items as you, you know, it looks like you know, better than a lot of you know, people I talk to ongoing basis, you, you know, not only on the operational side, but also on a leadership side. How did you get good at that? So if we talk about your journey, where you started from, and how you how you learn all this.

SPEAKER_04 21:44

Uh yeah, a lot of it was self taught. I just, again, it goes back to just sort of being at the right place at the right time. From I think my first job, I worked in an advertising company at Johns Manville. It was a big, huge global company. Our Parent company was in Denver, Colorado, but I worked here in Toronto in the Canadian operation. We had branches right across Canada, but we also had other companies that we dealt with globally around the world. And I had at that time, my manager was the we were the only two people in the department. And part of that reason was our parent company ended up going through chapter 11. So they went through a massive downsizing to the point where they eventually decided they were going to start selling off their Canadian operations. And I had a perfect opportunity. And I was like, hmm, well, I got to pay rent. So again, one of those serendipity moments. But I but willing to say sure, why not? Neither of us had been in that field before. And we just sort of leaped in and started Franklin Advertising and Communications. And we were very fortunate. We were able to take a chunk of the Canadian business with us. And then whatever divisions that they had sold to other new companies, we were able to go and pitch those companies. So I think that's sort of where I started. And then from there, I ended up moving to Kelowna, British Columbia. It was with Franklin Advertising for over 15 years, became a senior VP. But at the time, my husband and I were both entrepreneurs, we were getting a little burnt out. You know, the type of business that I was in, it meant a lot of travel. And because we had clients in the US as well as all across Canada, it meant there was a lot of travel. So 60, 70 hour weeks with two little ones and no immediate family support, we decided to do a lifestyle change and we moved to Kelowna, British Columbia. And again, you know, this idea of putting your feet on the ground, I honestly learned that at Franklin Advertising because one of the things I found is a lot of the people that we were actually pitching to where we were getting our communication strategies from, we're managers. We're people sitting in the office. So we really tried to make a point of saying, I want to go out with a salesperson. I want to go out and spend two days with a salesperson and go around and do sales calls with them. So I could get an opportunity to see what was actually happening at that level, as well as be able to talk to their customers. So it really was an amazing strategy for us because sometimes we would come back and find out that the information we were given wasn't really the correct information. So it either validated or invalidated, but now you had it at the ground level. It wasn't you just thinking about it or we actually had it right from the people who were working at that level. So it was extremely effective in terms of the creative that we were providing. And I brought that to Kelowna when I got there. Same type of concept. I started just really trying to get to know the community and joined a lot of volunteer associations, joined the Mission Residence Association, which was a neighborhood association, sat on that as a director, joined the Rotary for the Center of Arts. That was another volunteer board I sat on, just to really get to understand this community. And then from there, I ended up opening my my own business, Goodman Marketing Communications, which was again, my thinking was I'll bring my marketing skills to small shop owners here who don't have that in-house capability. And I found that oftentimes they did not really know if what they were doing was effective. So I took that strategy again and talking to their customers and doing little research surveys to get benchmarks to understand like, is this truly the message that we're communicating? Is this truly what is resonating with the customers? Is that the experience that they're having? So and I and I've brought that again to GM packaging. So I I really believe it's it's a very crap. I don't know that too many entrepreneurs will think, geez, you know, I'm just dealing with this customer. That's sort of my direct link. But it's okay to ask. It's okay. Can I I'd like to call some of your customers, I'd like to go visit them. I'd like to meet with your salespeople or your sales team and just, you know, and and you're welcome to be a part of it, but it's just so that I can understand your business a little bit better. And it takes you away, it brings that value to your customer and takes away you just becoming a service or pro or product provider.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

Yeah, but that it can start from the grind mindset that you you you you you have, right? So from uh even with a previous company, that you know, not shy of getting involved into something, you know, simply say, listen, I I need to ask questions, you know, asking those right uh the right questions, and especially that the grind, I think a lot of people shy away from that, and a lot of people don't realize what up you know, how big the grind is. Sometimes it's hard work and you know getting a result right away, it takes a little bit of time. But that grind is is a builds a business, you know, businesses. That's that's what builds a company. I mean, we can sit in an office and you know improve our operational process as much as we want to, but unless you have that grind mindset going out and talking to people and and figuring out what works, it's not gonna move the operations any further.

SPEAKER_04 27:12

Exactly. Those are great points. And I think what happens sometimes is we're afraid to ask. It's okay to ask.

SPEAKER_00 27:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:20

It's okay to ask. You know, sometimes we're just like, no, no, they're the customer, they know. No, they don't always know, you know, and I think that's what has I've learned from you know my background that they don't always know. Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't.

SPEAKER_01 27:34

Yeah, and the biggest asset we have as a business owner is the questions. Just write questions. You know, what kind of question can you ask? And if you write ask the right questions to the right people, you will get what you're looking for. But it's it's having that that that you know courage to go out and and post those questions. Hey, this is what I got.

SPEAKER_04 27:51

Thank you. And also it's okay to say, I don't know. Yeah, sometimes you don't honestly.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:57

Either with your own team as the leader because they're looking up to you, and sometimes with your customers. It it's all right to say I don't know, but I'm gonna find out for you, or I'm gonna try and talk to people who can help me find out.

SPEAKER_01 28:10

Got it. How uh how important and how difficult it is, you know, if it is difficult to pass this grind mindset and these kind of skill set, which you just outlined, to your team. So not only, you know, you are doing it, but you get your team to do the similar kind of mindset, similar kind of approach. So they're using the similar skill set and building on it.

SPEAKER_04 28:30

I think you really have to understand your team. And sometimes you have to bring in outside expertise to do that. I had my team profiled. We use something, I belong to a group called Tech Canada, but there's people within that, and there's a company called Predictive Success. And it's probably one of the best profiling companies that I've ever met. It really talks about, you know, getting the right person in the right seat, but understanding someone from basically their heart, their head, and also their experience. Because people come with their heart and their and their, or sorry, they come with their, you know, their head and their briefcase, their experience. But sometimes we don't really know what motivates them, truly what motivates them. And through Tech Canada, they actually had someone profile the members, and it's probably one of the best I've ever had done. And I've had them all done. I've had them all done. So, you know, the Myers Briggs and and all the other ones, I've had them done. But this one was really very insightful. And and what I liked about it was it not only gave me a profile of the person, but it also allowed me to understand how well they fit that particular role because you actually start profiling the position. And then you are sort of profiling the person to see where they fall within the within that position. And so it allowed me to understand ahead of time, if I was putting people together, maybe some of the obstacles that I might hit, you know, what might be some of the yellow or red lights with a couple of people working together based on what I knew about them and and how I could help guide them through that. So the whole thing just didn't come to a grinding halt. So that was something that was very insightful for me. It's a tool I still use. Uh I use it when I give performance reviews. I'm again, I'm a strong believer with performance reviews. It's not about me giving the review, it's about me giving them questions and we have a discussion, just like you and I. And we talk about what they think they've done really well, what they think they could improve on, you know, what would they, what would be a goal or two for them for the upcoming year? And once again, if you go through this process, it's really critical that you implement what you talk about. Because if you don't, then you're losing the trust of those people, right?

SPEAKER_01 30:48

Yeah. The talent pool you need to run your business to uh do you do we have enough Canada? Is it easy to find that or or do you have a struggle on that finding the talent?

SPEAKER_04 30:56

No, we don't. We don't have any struggles finding talent. We've been very fortunate. Most of our hires have been through referral. We actually don't use staffing agencies. We just internally we sort of know the type of people that we're looking for, and uh, and then we just ask within the team, do you know of anyone? I always profile someone coming in ahead of time. It's very easy to do this. It's like a little six minutes. You all you're doing is just picking words. It's it's very simple. But the data that you get from it is just so insightful. It's it really is very incredible. And and then it also helps me understand okay, where would that person best fit? You know, sometimes I don't, you can't just rely on the numbers. Sometimes you might profile someone and you're like, well, you know, based on the job, they're not really a great fit. But people can adapt.

unknown 31:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:47

With the, you know, with the right, with the right mentoring, with the right education, people can adapt and they can succeed.

SPEAKER_01 31:55

Well, if they know that it you know, what's a gap is, so they can they can adopt. But if there's they they have no idea what the gap is, how what are they gonna change it to? Exactly. Right. So so I think that's where it comes down. We're interesting. Let's talk about policies in Canada. Just to policy, you know, we can leave the political side, but let's we can talk policies. You've been right, you've you've been part of multiple businesses. What any thoughts on a policy? Like where could a government can do better, support entrepreneurs when they're grinding? You know, in people work very hard to build the businesses, you know, this is what the build economy. I mean, 93% business is uh, you know, in a small business in Canada. You know, we the government talks about they're gonna build economy, but it's actually a business owner like yourself, the build economy. We we created jobs, not the you know, government's gonna create public sector. So, where do you think the government can do a little better for in a help, or or you think that's the you know the policies are sufficient, what the what they're doing to support? I think you can always do better.

SPEAKER_04 32:48

I'm a great believer in the Japanese philosophy, Kaizan, continuous improvement. I think you could always do better. I think I again I don't think anything should operate in a vacuum. You know, our economy is changing all the time. Like, look at who would have predicted where we would be with the United States, and and that Kuzma would be again under the micro rate. So, yeah, I think I think definitely having dialogues, that's important. I think there should be more breaks for businesses who are actually supporting other Canadian businesses. Yeah, I think that's something that out of all of this, it's been become very mindful for people. We should be supporting other businesses, other Canadian businesses.

SPEAKER_01 33:31

For sure. And this is the whole idea for me to start this channel was simply I wanted to get these stories out for Canadian businesses. You know, what are we doing? And and you know, people don't talk about this grind as much. But you know, we we talk about you know, working hard, and but business owners that work tirelessly very, very hard to build their businesses and support their not only support their families, but also the employees, and they always get overlooked just because the business owners in you know uh from a policy standpoint. So I'm hoping that there's more visibility in that people see that how much hard work is that. I mean, when when I started a business, I wish there were somebody built it company who was talking about the how they built IT companies I could avoid tons of mistakes, you know, going through that. But there's no such, there's no such a discussion. So that's why I said, listen, I we know, we should help out the people who started building a business.

SPEAKER_04 34:18

Absolutely. Yeah, I think, and and the other thing that I think is very critical is the whole policy around inclusion. I think we talk about inclusion, but how much do we actually mindfully do that? You know, we are a very GM Packaging is a very multicultural company. We have people from Guyana, South Africa, India, Canada. We're just and and we're mindful of the their cultures and where they've come from, but also our customer base. So not just trying to focus on English, you know, who is our target base? Who else, how else could we present GM packaging in another language on our website? Just again, being mindful about your customers, being mindful about your team. And, you know, it's yes, we could celebrate Christmas, but we could also celebrate Diwali and we can celebrate other cultural events that are again for your team, you know, to make them feel a part of that. And it's a collaboration.

SPEAKER_01 35:20

I'm I'm gonna bring a point up that I struggle with all the time. You know, I hire a lot of people from uh from a different cultures as well. Great technical skills, very short on our soft skills, very short on our communication skills. And I train on an ongoing basis on a customer service because I need that skills to be top skills when I'm providing a service to customers. How do you build that skill set? You know, how do you handle that? Do you have a way of handling it or or simply just give them some uh you know information so they can work on? But that's a skill that takes a lot of investment from business to build that skill set. It's not something you can build. I mean, technical skills you can teach somebody how to how to do something, they can do that the next time, right? But soft, soft skills, communication skills, relationship with the connection with the customers, these are skills built over a long time. And and uh, you know, and and when you bring in the people from different cultures, that that's where I find a lot of gaps are and it's a lot of hard work, a lot of commitment from business owners.

SPEAKER_04 36:13

I think you have to give people the opportunity. Sometimes we had an employee that had to leave for a month due to a death in the family, and it made us very short-staffed in our retail store. So I brought our one of our associate shipper receivers into the store and said, Okay, how comfortable are you with handling cash? Do you understand, you know, the bills and the coins? Excellent with the bills, not so good with the coins, but very skilled with the computer and picked it up very, very quickly. So I don't think you can make assumptions about necessarily, oh, I've hired this person here, maybe those skills aren't transferable. Is to give someone an opportunity, but you also have to coach them. I'm a great believer in coaching. I think if you bring someone into a position, you have to, they're gonna make mistakes, and that's okay. I've always told my team, we're all gonna make mistakes, including me, as long as we learn from our mistakes. So as long as someone feels comfortable stepping into a role and they know that a mistake is okay and we're gonna talk about it and we're gonna fix it, then people will actually step up and and say, Yeah, I'd like to have the opportunity to try that, or you know, can can I can I expand over here? Giving people the education too. That's the other thing. I was very fortunate through my past career where companies supported me to take education. I think you should never stop learning. And if you have that philosophy, then you should offer it to your people, but then also offer them the ability to compensate them for it. Because if they're going to take that extra time outside of work to learn a new skill or to become more proficient at their skill, then as a leader, you should actually, that should be part of the reward for them doing that.

SPEAKER_01 37:55

So, what I'm hearing, Sue, is you know, desire to learn, growth mindset, and and uh a little bit hunger to to overcome obstacles. It doesn't matter what the obstacles are, people are able to get over that as long as you can identify those, you know, a little bit little bit hunger and desire to learn and the growth mindset for people.

SPEAKER_04 38:12

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 38:13

Yeah. I I think people, if when you find people like with the with those three skill set, you know, it doesn't matter the technical skills, communication, they will get they will get get over it. But if if uh they don't you you don't find that that hunger and desire to learn and growth mindset, it doesn't matter what the challenge is, they will struggle with those challenges.

SPEAKER_04 38:30

A hundred percent. Yeah, a hundred percent. And and you know, sometimes you'll have someone who's very skilled. So just pairing people up, again, giving them the support, it's okay. You know, you're gonna learn how to use the forklift, but we're gonna have you do it here with someone who's been in the company for 23 years, and they're gonna sort of walk you through it and guide you, just like you know, when you take your kids to learn how to drive. It's it's the same, it's the same concept in a company. You just as long as you have someone that's there and encouraging them and letting them, letting them understand that there's gonna be a learning curve and you're not gonna get it right away, but that's okay. We don't expect you to.

SPEAKER_01 39:05

Yeah. Looking back five, 10, 15 years, if somebody's starting a business, or somebody in an early uh uh, you know, very early on, they they're looking to build a company, looking to start a company. You know, you've gone through a lot of businesses. Any word advice you can you can share with them, you know, look at this way, look at that, you know, a different way, maybe that will help them to avoid a lot of mistakes that we make as a business owner to get through.

SPEAKER_04 39:27

Well, you're always gonna make mistakes, so that's okay. Give yourself grace, make them faster.

SPEAKER_01 39:34

Get her over them.

SPEAKER_04 39:35

I I think look for resources that you know, where and and you don't always have to pay for them. Like I mentioned, I'm a part of Tech Canada. It's a peer mentor-to-mentor group. We are all in different businesses. No one within the group has the same business, but we all have the same problem. And so it's, you know, look for people maybe that you know in business that you can go and talk to if you can't join an organization like something like tech, which we we have actually structured board meetings with this chair and there's agendas and speakers come in. But it's been invaluable to me because oftentimes we're by ourselves, right? Not many entrepreneurs have a partner, and it's not something you can talk to your family or your team to, or so you you want to talk to other uh entrepreneurs in within your industry and and don't hesitate to do that. Uh I find people are really uh helpful. People would would, you know, would be happy to go and help someone who's starting out and give some sage advice.

SPEAKER_01 40:35

One, you know, when I was part of a Tech Canada, one thing I liked about you know on these groups is uh different perspective. You know, you could be solving a problem, something in your business, and I have probably solved the problem in my business a different way, but you show me the problem, I'm gonna share a totally different perspective coming from different industry, different people, different way of looking at it. I'm gonna share that perspective with you. And if you get five, six perspectives on the same problem for different members from Tech Canada, that is a very valuable, you know. Now you can solve the problem with the five, six different ways, and you pick which way you want to solve it. And I think that's when when tech when they come on site, you know, that we spend, we used to spend the whole day in somebody's business, understanding what the challenges are, and try to offer our perspective. I think that that the day of spending on a business was very valuable, you know, uh, and and looking at the problem many different ways. I think those kind of strengths from these groups, you know, they go a long way and add tons of value to every business.

SPEAKER_04 41:30

Absolutely. Those are awesome points. It's so true because you get sort of in your lane, and and it's hard sometimes for you to see it any other way because this is just what you know, right? And and you do get all of those perspectives. And sometimes it's those aha moments when you go, geez, I never even thought of that.

SPEAKER_01 41:48

Well, we are so you know deep in a business. We're trying to run a business, trying to, you know, our operational side, whether it's trying to grow. We are so narrowed in that. And there's so many blind spots that we don't see. And when somebody else comes in simply says, Oh, you know, you're missing this piece, take a look at this way. So that covers your you know blank spots, and now you're able to solve the problem.

SPEAKER_04 42:07

Absolutely. And then there's other ways, you know, you could get onto like different boards. There's lots of volunteer boards that, you know, maybe the a small business board or you know, Canadian Federation of Small Business. Like there's there's lots of different ways that you could connect with people that if you don't have the financial resources to look and just say, okay, maybe that's something I could get involved in and you know, meet some other small business owners. But again, within a within any industry, I think, like for yourself for tech or myself for packaging, to get together with other packaging companies and and say, hey, could we have a coffee? I'd just really sort of like to talk about you know some of the struggles you had when you first started out, like what are some of the pitfalls, or is there any advice you could give me? And I think most people would be quite honored to do that. I I, you know, they're not gonna share all their secrets of success, but at least, you know, help someone in a new business and and and give them some guidance.

SPEAKER_01 43:06

Took me long to learn that to you know early on in a business. You know, when I started a business, I thought these problems are unique to me. I'm the first one to try to solve a problem, but a business you know, owner who start a business, they don't realize all of these problems have been solved before. Somebody solved this problem before, before you started business, right? So, yeah, you could you could have a little bit of uniqueness in a in a problem, but generally these problems have been solved before. These are the operational problems, somebody has solved it before. So, to your point, if you reach out and if you talk to other people, somebody solved the problem, they will help you to get over the problem instead of you sitting there thinking it's unique. So it took me a lot of longer to learn that. I wish I learned that a little early hands. I would have saved a lot of time. But yeah, every problem operationally, growth-wise, these are problems solved so many times with different industries.

SPEAKER_03 43:53

But now you're actually assisting other business owners through your podcasts and talking to people through the industry. Industry. So it's all we learned.

SPEAKER_01 44:01

I I've I waste about five, six years just trying to understand because I I thought all the problems I'm up against, these are unique problems. Nobody's seen it before, nobody solved them before. I'm the first one. I gotta solve all the problems with the hard work and all this stuff. Then I realized no, these problems have been solved before. So you just gotta get out and talk to people.

SPEAKER_03 44:19

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 44:20

Very interesting. Any message you want to leave for business owners, business leaders who are who are listening to us, Sue? Anything you want to uh leave for them? Do you still you know do you still take a phone call from business leaders who are, you know, trying to solve a similar problem in in uh in Ontario or in Canada sometimes? Absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 44:37

I have been very fortunate throughout my career where people have been there for me and sort of helped me get a leg up in in different areas. I love giving back to the community. I'm a great believer in giving back. So wherever I've gone, and if there's a way that I can assist, and especially the, you know, in depending on the industry, but there's not a lot of women in the packaging industry. Most of the industries I've been in, there are very few women. So encouraging women, you know, to reach out to other women to ask questions like, how did you get started? Are are there some things I should know? But just don't be afraid. Just if the opportunity is there, take the opportunity and never stop learning. Never stop learning.

SPEAKER_01 45:19

How can they connect with you? How can they uh be in touch with you?

SPEAKER_04 45:22

They can either email me. Uh, probably the best would be email Sue at gmpackaging.com, or they can call me on my uh landline and 905-206-0550. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:35

I'll include a link to your website and your and your email below the video. They can simply uh you know, click a button, they can reach out to you. But you know, business leaders who are listening to us or or see, you know, uh people are watching us uh on YouTube, I'll strongly encourage, you know. There's so many uh, you know, uh very uh you know great points you made in our discussion. I'm sure there's a lot of value they can draw from. And if they want to talk further, you know, have reach out to you, have for conversations, who know where the discussion is gonna go. I for last hour, I learned so much from you. I'm sure whoever uh connects with you, they're gonna learn a lot from you as well.

SPEAKER_04 46:07

So well, thank you so much. It's been a pleasure chatting with you.

SPEAKER_01 46:10

Likewise, thank you so much for time soon. Okay, take care. We'll talk soon. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 46:13

Bye bye.