Why His Construction Company Outgrew the Competition

Leaders who mentor, coach, and develop their people build stronger teams, fuel innovation, and create the talent pipelines that drive long-term growth.

In this episode, I sit down with George Vassallo, President & CEO of Bothwell-Accurate, a nearly 100-year-old Toronto-based roofing and building envelope company. Since acquiring the business in 2006, he’s grown it from 85 to 1,000 employees through vertical integration, expansion, and acquisitions—while keeping a people-first, development-focused culture at the core..

https://www.linkedin.com/in/george-vassallo-aa499425/
https://www.bothwell-accurate.com/


Chapters

00:00 Introduction to George Vassallo and His Ventures
02:04 Growth and Expansion of Botwell Accurate
05:02 Acquisition Strategies and People Management
07:58 Cultural Integration and Team Dynamics
11:57 Hiring Philosophy and Team Player Attributes
16:08 Investing in Employee Development and Mentorship
19:00 Addressing Gender Diversity in the Workforce
21:53 Navigating Technological Changes in Business
24:00 Embracing Technology in Construction
28:00 The Roadmap to a Billion-Dollar Company
32:00 Challenges in the Canadian Construction Market
36:04 Building a Business: Lessons Learned
41:50 Starting vs. Buying a Business
45:59 Mindset for Success in Business

Transcript

Introduction to George Vassallo and His Ventures

SPEAKER_01 0:00

It's certainly not the kids that have gone bad. It's the culture that has gone bad. We're not teaching them what they truly need to know. The younger generation is very, very hip when it comes to AI and computer systems. They learn and can bring it in so much quicker than a gentleman of my age. We have to learn to ask for help. And that's something that people have a lot of problem in doing. You know, and again, that's why, you know, you sometimes you got to let your pride go and just say, I need help.

unknown 0:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 0:31

If you don't ask, you don't get. Automation will never take your job if you remember how to communicate. You know, but if if you stop communicating, if you're strictly a, you know, a thumb pusher, that's you're gonna be out of a job. You have to converse with other people. That's what's gonna save the human race. The younger generation has to learn. We don't have a job to give you what you want. You have a job to create what you want.

Growth and Expansion of Botwell Accurate

SPEAKER_02 1:00

Hi there. Welcome to Business Leadership Podcast. In this episode, I had a discussion with George Vasalo. George is the president and CEO of Bothwell Accroid, a Toronto-based roofing, waterproofing, and building envelope solution provider, established in 1927. He acquired the company in 2006. After 15 years as a VP of sales in his family's electrical distribution business, under his leadership, the firm has grown from 85 to over 1,000 employees through vertical integration, organic expansion, strategic acquisitions. While maintaining a strong people first culture, George emphasizes empathy, employee development, and adaptability, preparing the nearly century old company for his next 100 years. Now, this was a very interesting discussion. We talked about various topics around the business, leadership, and operations. George shared his journey of acquiring and growing his company from 18 million to 270 million and his path to a billion-dollar company and emphasizing the importance of people in a business. He also discussed his strategy for integrating new acquisitions, fostering a strong company culture, and the importance of mentorship and employee development. Now, as a business owner, I'm always looking to learn from people who have built a business bigger than I have, or they've been in a business for longer than I have, as there's so much in their experience that you can learn from. George has been successfully building companies, growing companies, and operationally running very, very successfully for so many years. There's so much to learn from him. If you are a business owner or in any leadership position, don't miss this discussion. There's so much to learn from George's experience, whether it's employee development, mentorship, or simply just a mindset for business leaders. If you find a value in this discussion, don't forget to send us your feedback. We've got only one simple ask. What we find is recently is that 58% of people who are watch our content haven't subscribed to our channel. So please subscribe, share with your friend, and send us your feedback. Until next time, please welcome George Vassalo. Hi guys, welcome to Business Leadership Podcast. Today we're guest is George Vasalo. George George, you are CEO at uh Botel and uh Eccurate. You know, you've been working for many years. There's so much wisdom, so much experience behind you. So I'm looking forward to a discussion, looking forward to learning from you. Thank you so much for time today.

SPEAKER_01 3:13

Well, thank you very much for inviting me, Gurmit. It's always been a pleasure, and it'll be nice to go through some of the uh the current events with you.

SPEAKER_02 3:20

Okay, likewise. So let's start with that with the business. So is that the only company involved in Georgia, or there's other you know, opportunities also working at the same time?

SPEAKER_01 3:29

Uh no, my main business is the uh the roofing, glassing, plaiding, and and roofing business called Bothwell Accurate. And then a side we're we operate in Ontario and in BC. And we are currently looking at opening up in Ottawa. Right now we're only in Toronto, and then when I get back in May, we're looking at opening up in uh Kamloops, BC. So that'll give us the four locations. Outside of that, I own a company in California, which is called Lemon's Headers. And what that does is that builds racing headers for drag cars. And I've always been a car fanatic. And you know, I like to collect cars and sell them and race them once in a while when I have time. So it's uh it's my business away from business, if I can put it that way.

SPEAKER_02 4:13

Are you still investing or are you still going on a racing as well by you by yourself?

SPEAKER_01 4:17

Yep. No, we I wouldn't classify it as racing, really. It's called tracking. So, you know, it's just it's regular guys like me that get out onto a racetrack, most mainly Mossport, and uh, we race each other on the track. And uh it's a it's a good stress relief for all of us. We get to get out there, have some fun. And the group I belong to, which is called Drive Tech, there it's a lot of construction people. So it's we we all have the same philosophies and the same interests in life. So it really pays off for us.

SPEAKER_02 4:45

Very interesting. So let's talk about Vaughn Equate. This is not a family business, it's not that you know you need an inherit from a parents. You you you build this company by yourself, right?

Acquisition Strategies and People Management

SPEAKER_01 4:55

Well, and and back in 2006, I bought it from another family called the Jamesons. And at that point in time, they were in Toronto and they were mainly a roofing contractor based in in Weston Road. And they came across the crossroads where it was one generation, generation getting ready to retire, and another one getting ready to take over. And the founder believed that his his kids were not capable of running the business and doing it justice. So he put it up for sale. I was uh lucky enough to find out about it and made my pitch to him. His name was Ralph Jameson. And after about a four and a half hour meeting, we had uh done the deal, and it took us about another nine months to actually close it.

SPEAKER_02 5:41

Wow. So that was about early 90s, uh Georgia, or was it even before that?

SPEAKER_01 5:45

No, it was after that. It was 2006 when I bought the company. Wow. Okay. So I've been with the company now 20 years, and we've gone from an$18 million company to about a$270 million company. Wow.

SPEAKER_02 5:59

So what what did you see as opportunity in a company? Was it opportunity to scale, or was it something proprietary they were doing? And what did you see as uh the opportunity in it?

SPEAKER_01 6:08

Well, there was a lot of I'll say associated businesses. Like when we started off with roofing, waterproofing used the same type of personnel, the same type of products. So it was something we could get into quite easily. So we did that, prematurely we did that. And we we grew. I mean, when we started, we had one guy and then it just kept growing. And uh, today we probably have about 90 guys in our waterproofing division. And then after that, I was doing a job at General Motors in Oshawa, and uh, we were acting as the contractor. So we had a cladding company that was subcontracted by us, and about halfway through the job, he went bankrupt. And, you know, I was in a bit of a pickle. So I said, Well, I said, I don't know anything about cladding, but we're about to find out, guys. And so we bought all the remnants of the company and hired some of the people there, and that took us into cladding. And then uh just recently, about seven years ago, I got into a glazing company in BC called Glass Tech, bought that, brought it under my umbrella. And in Toronto, three years ago, when a competitor went bankrupt, I hired 26 of his people and brought them into the organization and started our glass division in Toronto.

SPEAKER_02 7:24

Well, yeah, it looks like you've been you've been taking a lot of companies over George. These are not an easy decision because one of the wrong decisions in that area could jeopardize what you already built, right? So, so how do you make this decision? How do you how do you go about it? What what are some of the items that you want to make sure that you get it right when you when you take on a company? Because there's so much risk making a wrong decision and and it jeopardize what you already built in a previous company.

Cultural Integration and Team Dynamics

SPEAKER_01 7:48

Yeah, I think the the the the the crux of the whole thing when it comes down to it, Gurmit, is when you hire when you buy a company, the key component is obviously people. So I always look at the people that I'm gonna inherit with the company. Most companies that I I've looked at to purchase, the owner wanted to get out right away. And normally when the owner leaves, you have a few more departures that are all already wanted or not wanted. So we try to look down the road five years and say, are we gonna have capable people that can re can come in and run this particular company properly without the leadership of the old owner? And that is the hardest part because most people, when they're ready to retire, have not put a second infrastructure internally. So all their managers are the same age as themselves, and you might be able to get one or two more years out of them, but there's no middle-tier management. So when I buy a company, I want to make sure that there's middle tier management that is 40 to 45, that can give me a 20, 25 year runway. Without that, it's very, very difficult to do.

SPEAKER_02 8:54

Yeah, that that is an area I see a lot of business struggle, George, especially uh what are we going, what's going on in a Canada? A lot of people are consolidating, or they're buying business, or they're merging with other businesses. But the the people is the biggest challenge, you know, to your point. That's a great point. So when you buy a company, because there's a cultural clash as well. You have a company, they already built a culture, they have a certain way of working, and you bring in up new people, they have a different way of working. So, do you bring those people to to your style, the way you're working, or you keep them separate that they they never cultures never clash, do you manage them separately?

SPEAKER_01 9:27

I I think out of the gate, you run them separately, but you're showing them how you operate your business elsewhere. And it's an educational process. You know, in every any business you run or in anything you do in your life, communication is key. And I find that you have to spend a lot of time with people explaining why you do it, not just how you do it, but you have to give them a reason why. So you've got to get buy-in. And the one thing that I look for in all my people, and I try to excude that by myself, is showing passion. I'm very passionate about my business. And everybody that knows me well in this industry knows that I exude passion. You know, I love my people, I call them my family, and I truly mean that. They're not employees, they're people that I truly care about and want to help. And so when you, excuse me, when you buy another company, they learn very quickly that you actually do care about them. And I'll go the extra mile to help my my staff and educating them to the way I think. You know, it's one of the things that uh I'll throw at you right now, which is a key topic of discussion everywhere right now, is equity versus equality. And, you know, I try to teach my people that I don't believe in equity, I believe in the quality. If you deserve the job, you're gonna get the job. I don't care your race, your religion, your color, nothing like that. It doesn't matter to me. If you're the best for the job, you're gonna get the job. So when I I bring people into my organization, they quickly see I've got the United Nations of contractors. I've gotten people from all over the world, and I'm proud about that. That, you know, I've been able to mesh not just the people, but their cultures within my culture. So it's it's worked out extremely well, and we're gonna continue to do that because I firmly believe that people are people. It really doesn't stem from their origin. It it's inside their body. Are they or are they not going to be a good person for my community? And that's what I try to base it on.

Hiring Philosophy and Team Player Attributes

SPEAKER_02 11:23

Such a great point, George. This is an area I see a lot of business. I, you know, I talked to a lot of business leaders. This is the struggle. And if somebody can get this right, on a people side looks like you you got, you know, you've been doing a very right one by this. So you you you scale the company, you work with a lot of people, but this is the area a lot of people struggle. So I'm gonna dig a little bit deeper on this topic. So some of the people you'd hire, because you buy a business, you know, they definitely uh see that your passion and and they can they can change and they can follow. But beside that, no, those are the people you you you have to work with. Beside that, if you're hiring somebody new, is there something inside? Is there something you look for? You know, some some is non-negotiable that this person is gonna have that, that those persons can change their way of thinking or the way that they they're approaching things and and you know, seeing your passion and and the way you uh you know run a company's what are some of the attributes of you know, this is the no non-negotiable because if they have this, they will change and they will learn new things and they will grow with the company.

SPEAKER_01 12:20

Well, one of the things that I've noticed very quickly in business and Gourmet all through my business environment is that you can tell very quickly if a person believes in I or me status rather than a they and we status. And you know, if if I hear somebody during a an interview process where it's I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I quickly get turned off. I want to know what you were part of. Not what you are, but what you were a part of. Because you either build people up or you tear them down. And, you know, the really good people that have that aura about them where they are truly a team player, you you recognize that very, very quickly. They want to understand your business during the interview. They want to know what you have in mind for them. How are they going to fit in with the team? You know, it there's a lot of thought that goes into it. As I tell everybody, there's a lot of very smart people out there, but a lot of very smart people cannot work within a group. And, you know, I want people that understand and have empathy for the people around them. I don't like finger pointer saying, I did this and you didn't do that. It's we failed, we passed, we we succeeded, or we failed. And, you know, a gentleman once told me it's not a win or lose, it's a win or learn. And, you know, that's the biggest thing that I've I've come to recognize that, you know, people have to continually learn, me included. And during this whole process of, I'll say melting pod that is definitely becoming a worldwide situation right now, you have to understand all the sides, not just your belief system, but everybody's belief system and try to make sure that they feel comfortable. So when they're there, I want to make sure that their philosophies are not rigid, that they're not, you know, carved in stone, that there's some leeway in the way that they think. I will purposely go out of my way and say something that I know is argumentative, just to see what type of response I will get from them. Are they prepared to stand up for their beliefs, or do they just, excuse the expression, brown nose and say, yes, you're right. I don't want people that just give me platitudes. I want people that are gonna dig in and do the what's best for the whole team.

SPEAKER_02 14:38

Yeah, that's such a great point. It's uh, you know, thanks for sharing the wisdom. So definitely you want people that are interested in a result as a group, not a result as a person. I think that's such a great point. You know, you hire people and this they work in asylos, they're simply interested in what they can produce as a person, not as a team. And, you know, definitely, you know, that what you want to filter that out early, early on as to the to your point. If you can eliminate that, that you know makes such such a great team.

Investing in Employee Development and Mentorship

SPEAKER_01 15:02

Yeah, the other thing that I I always look for is when it comes to money, the the people that are in it for themselves want to get to the top as quickly as they can and make as much money as they can very, very quickly out of the gate. And I look at other people, look, I want to perform, I want to show you what I can do. The proof is in the pudding. If I make money, you're gonna take care of me. If I don't, you're gonna throw me out the door. And, you know, so that there's a lot of discussions. I ask questions that, you know, I probably shouldn't during an interview process, but I want to know what's your family like, you know, because I I firmly believe that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. So if your parents are good people, then I know you're a good person. And you know, you may not be uh as mature as them, but you will certainly grow into them. So you know that I I try to look and really do listen with interest when I'm doing an interview to bring people in. You know, one of the other things that I've done, Gurmit, that because of all the immigrants that are coming in, is I'm a firm believer that English is a very important part of the construction area. And I've I've had a lot of discussions with government in this regard. Because if if I have, you know, I'll say a Russian on my rooftop and he doesn't understand English, and a crane is swinging over with product there and he's in the way, if he doesn't hear, get out of the way and understand that, he could be knocked off the roof and killed. So we do internal English language English lessons to try to tell the immigrants this is the language of choice. And I know it's difficult when you're within my organization not to speak your own primary language, but speak in English. It's good practice. You're amongst friends, you're amongst family. Practice it because it could save your life.

SPEAKER_02 16:51

Got it. Yeah, no, that is such a great point. And and you know, kudos to you that putting efforts into it, training people on a language side as well. Because a lot of companies, that's where a lot of investment goes, right? It's it's uh it's time consuming. You know, hard skill, technical skill, and I'm talking about my business, George could be different in your business. Hard skills, technical skills, easy teachable. You show somebody how to do it and they will follow next time. But these skill set, whether it's communication, whether it's a language, whether it's the interpersonal skills we're talking about, these are the skills that takes a long time to build. A lot of investment required by companies, a lot of time required by companies to train these people. And I think that's where Canada, you know, uh our labor market is struggling a little bit that we imported a lot of people that they're very short on the soft skill side of things. They they have a great hard scale, but short, soft scale. And investment required by companies is such a big investment, company kind of shy away from it, taking on those people. But kudos to you. You're putting a lot of efforts and a lot of time into it to build that a bit. Is that so? Let me ask you from a business standpoint is that a fair investment to uh for for longer run in these people so you will get the return that listen, these people are gonna move your business forward.

Addressing Gender Diversity in the Workforce

SPEAKER_01 17:58

Yeah, like to be honest, what what I tell my staff is for three years, I'm investing far more than you're giving back. And for the next three to five years after that, the role starts to change, where the individual starts to give back more to the company and the company starts to benefit. So, you know, it it's a win-win for both, but it is a costly thing for both because, you know, we're bringing in somebody that's raw, that may not understand the trade, that certainly doesn't understand the language. And that's why the makeup of the individual is so important to me. He's got to have that passion, he's got to be proud about what he does. You know, and it's I hate to say it, but the older generation was extremely proud in everything they did. And the younger generation does not seem to have that same input, that same belief system. And, you know, like a they give you a perfect example about that. What I'm talking about is if I look at the younger generation today, I hear out of, I'm gonna say 90% of them, I can't afford a house. I'm sure you've heard the same thing. Yeah. Well, when in my day, I couldn't afford my house either. But the thing differently is I had three jobs. I did what I needed to do, and my wife worked. We did everything and we saved our money. We didn't have a BMW or Mercedes in our driveway, and we sure as heck didn't expect to buy a 3,000 square foot house. You know, my first house was a thousand square feet, you know, and it's the the ambitions, the expectations are so different today that we have to get people to to truly understand the benefits of working along with people. I believe I'm a mentor. I want to be an educator, I want to teach them, but you have to be prepared to listen. And if you're prepared to listen, then you and I are gonna get along really well. If not, we're we're gonna argue.

SPEAKER_02 19:46

And prepare to listen is where the attention spam spam is so small for a lot of these kids, right? So, because social media did such a great job to kill their attention spam. So when they're listening, they have a very small, small attention spam, and and but they gotta learn a lot. You they gotta work, they gotta work on that attention spam to keep listening.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

Yeah, and I think the, you know, and I I I blame the the school system a lot. You know, I've had conversations with the the government on this regard. We're teaching the kids the wrong thing. So it's it's certainly not the kids that have gone bad, it's the culture that has gone bad. We're not teaching them what they truly need to know. And, you know, like one of the things that I tell all my guys when they first come in is nobody knows how to budget. They were never taught how to budget. So they spend far more than they make. And, you know, so we're constantly telling them you have to understand, you have to save 10 to 15% of every paycheck. That just goes without saying. And you have to live within that 85%. And you know, you don't, I don't want you to go because you can get a new credit card or go and get a loan to buy a new BMW. If you can't afford it, don't do it. So I like to be a mentor, I like to be an educator within my company. And at my age now, I feel that's what I am. I'm not the the you know, face of the business anymore. I have a lot of management teams that do that for me. Now it's just a matter of showing them the vision and explaining to them why I do things the way I do them. Because most people all will follow if they understand why you're asking them to do something.

SPEAKER_02 21:24

Wow. Um how about the talent pool, George? In your business industry, do we have enough you know, Canadian talent that we could we could use, or or we could import it from outside? Like, you know, what are your thoughts on a talent pool?

Navigating Technological Changes in Business

Embracing Technology in Construction

SPEAKER_01 21:36

Well, it's a it's a combination of them both, Germeat. I mean, there are some young Canadians that are prepared to do the job. And you know, they're they're very much appreciated. There's a lot of immigrants that are prepared to do their job. You know, there's a lot of negatives with immigration that, you know, I don't think we should get into. But in the same regard, you know, the same way you run a business, you have Have to truly investigate who the person is you're bringing in. Why do they want to come here? You know, what are they going to do when they get here? Where are they going to live when they get here? You know, we we have to do far more investigation, but I think immigration is good for this country. I don't like a government that says, yes, open the doors, no, close the doors. That that's ridiculous. You have to have a trained program where you know how many you're going to bring in yearly, what are you going to do those with those people when they get here? But the biggest thing we're missing is the women in trades. I have roughly between 900 and 1,000 employees, and I do not have one woman in the field. And, you know, I go back to the world wars where women did everything. They built the plants, they built the machinery, they built the tanks, the ammunition. They did it all. So I know they can do it. We just don't give them the opportunity. And one of the reasons they don't have the opportunity is because they are still the primary child rearer, which means we have to do something for the daycare centers. So that's another thing that I'm working on, Gurmit. I'm trying to get government, unions, and the employers to do extended daycare so that it goes from 5 a.m. till 8 p.m. So that a wife knows her children are taken care of and she doesn't have to leave during, you know, at three o'clock because she got a phone call from her from her daughter or her son. You know, we have to give back to the to the society at large, or it's going to falter. And it can't be somebody else's problem. It's our problem. So going through this educational process now, and I'm talking to the daycare centers, I'm talking to government, I'm talking to the unions and fellow investors, and we will get there, but it's going to take me some time. But we we can't ignore women anymore. You know, I I go to the to give you an example, I go to the shopping centers and I see all these women working there, and they're working for minimum wage. And I'm going, like, why would you work there when you can go into the construction business and make$100,000 a year? Like, this doesn't make any sense to me. Yes, it may not be as clean. You don't get dressed up every day, but really, do you enjoy your job standing behind a counter for eight hours a day, waiting for somebody to come up to you? Or do you want to build something? And from my point of view, it's got to go back to pride. Let's give them some pride. They they need to know they are man's equal. And I believe they are. Yeah. Some don't, but I believe they are.

SPEAKER_02 24:29

No, no, they're you know, I totally agree with you. But I think I to your point, uh George, if they're worried about the kids at home, I they have to pick up kids, definitely that makes it very hard for them to stay in the job, you know, as you mentioned. But if we can cover that, if we can take care of the babies, and they don't have to go around and and uh, you know, try to, they're worried about all the time, thinking about it all the time. Definitely, I think uh, you know, that's a win-win situation.

SPEAKER_01 24:51

Yeah, there's no question about it. There's a lot of wins, you know. And then when I talked to the government about it, I said, you know, I'm I'm selfishly looking at construction, but what about the automotive industry where there are three shifts? You know, who takes care of their kids? You know, like we we have to expand our horizons, expand our thought processes, and try to truly consider everybody, not just yourself or your own sector. Think about everybody.

SPEAKER_02 25:17

We're we're we're interesting. Well, I'll switch a gear. Uh, you know, technology changes so fast, business changes so fast. George, are you thinking about is it making an impact on your business or is it just a part of the business? How do you how do you keep you know uh you know, deal with the changes happening a business, the technology, economic changes, financial changes, so much stuff changes all the time. How do you how do you how do you take those changes?

SPEAKER_01 25:40

Well, I I you know it the the average individual, in my point of view, has a very difficult time keeping up with it because it's so fast moving. But I mean, you know, my number one concern is to make sure that all my information is secure. And that is a very huge problem for every business today. We're all being attacked from outside sources, and our IT division has gone from nobody to now we have seven people in our IT division, and it just keeps growing because you have to stay on top of it all. Our accounting team has also been increased because of the bank frauds that are going on. So, you know, we've had uh false checks, we've had people try to steal the identity of the company. I mean, it's it's been nonstop, but you can't put your head in the sand, you have to address it all and try to get ahead of the curve rather than behind it. When we're talking about equipment, there, you know, I'm tired of people saying, well, we've always done it this way. Well, I don't care what you did 10 years ago. We now have access to do this with this equipment so that we can help people stop them from going on workmen's comp because back issues are very, very prominent in the construction area. So we've got to give them machinery that will preserve their health. So, you know, that's that's one thing. You know, AI can help us do that by sourcing out different pieces of equipment. AI helps us to put better presentations together when we're submitting to, you know, the uh the contractors, the GCs, or the developers. There's so much that is available for us that we're trying to continually do things that we've never done before. And we use drones a lot now, you know, drones we've never used before, but we're we now have drones everywhere. We have 3D building. So it's you know, the the it's just constantly changing, and you have to invest a lot of money to stay current. But, you know, as a as an owner, I'm gonna spend whatever I have to to make sure that my business does not fall behind.

SPEAKER_02 27:38

Yeah, that's that's a key. You know, you mentioned a lot of things, you know, definitely there's a lot of technology, but then the other part comes in can business keep up with the learning of all of this technology coming in our way, right? So I think that's where the investment comes, that not only we gotta buy all the technology, but how do we bring people to the same speed that they they know how to make a best use of these technologies?

The Roadmap to a Billion-Dollar Company

SPEAKER_01 27:57

Well, that's one of the things that uh, you know, we you know, and I'm I'm one of them, we complain a lot about the younger generation, but the younger generation is very, very hip when it comes to uh AI and computer systems. They learn and can bring it in so much quicker than a gentleman of my age. So, you know, I like bringing in young guys because they they get it. They, you know, and they're teaching, they're mentoring me people of my age rather than the other way around. I can teach them the trade, but they have to teach me the automation. And it's you know, again, the younger generation gets a lot of heat because of what's going on today, but they're a big, big benefit as well.

SPEAKER_02 28:35

Yeah, it's natural to them, right? Technology is not something they're born with, they they can pick up very, very quickly, you know, and set up for teaching somebody how to do a lot of that stuff.

SPEAKER_01 28:44

100%. You know, I've heard I can't tell you how many times people might say, geez, I was sitting there for an hour and a half trying to figure it out, and this guy did it for me in 30 seconds. You know, it's we have to learn to ask for help. And that's something that people have a lot of problem in doing, you know, and again, that's why, you know, you sometimes you got to let your pride go and just say, I need help.

unknown 29:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:06

If you don't ask, you don't get. Somebody can do better than you, then definitely you gotta be open to help. Correct. And I think when you when you when you're helping, when you're asking for help, people feel that connection as well, right? They want to be asking for help when they need help, right? So if if uh you know being vulnerable in a company, definitely they they take that as a back listen, you know, maybe it's not nice, you know, good for me to go and ask for help.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

Well, you know, one of the other things that I'm I'm trying to teach the younger generation in particular is that they are they they know the most about automation, but they're also the ones that are fearing most by automation. And, you know, like I'm saying, automation will never take your job if you remember how to communicate. You know, but if if you stop communicating, if you're strictly a you know, a thumb pusher, that's you're gonna be out of a job. You have to converse with other people. That's what's gonna save the human race. You know, a computer will never take that from us. Our mind and our soul is ours forever. And if the kids start to realize that, they'll come out of their shells and start to really take advantage of the AI that is available today. And I look at my company now, you know, like I've said to my daughter, who's 45, that by the time she retires, I want the company to be a billion-dollar company. And I don't see why we can't get there if we just keep all these methods moving forward and you get buy-in from the younger generation because they are the lifeline for our future.

SPEAKER_02 30:34

Yeah. So you but you mentioned a great point. I want to segue, you mentioned the billion-dollar company. So, what's what's the roadmap to that, George? Is that more for uh acquisitions or or are you guys looking to you know get into different directions in a in a in a service side? I you know, what takes you there?

Challenges in the Canadian Construction Market

SPEAKER_01 30:52

Well, it's a different viewpoint, I think, today than what I had three years ago. With what's happened with our American friends and what's happening with trade, Canada has to become far more reliant upon itself than others. And, you know, I listened to Mr. Carney and Mr. Polyev, and they seem to be on side with it, but they're not taking it far enough or fast enough. And to give you an example, you know, lately I've been paying attention to all the plastics in in our livelihoods today. And it's it's breaking down and it's getting into your system. And, you know, it once it gets into your system, they can't get rid of it. So it's causing a lot of blame brain tumors, it's costing a lot, causing a lot of other illnesses within the bodies. We have to go back to glass. And, you know, I've said the government, we used to have four glass manufacturers in Canada. Today we don't have any. So, and the reason I bring this up is my next move is to get into manufacturing because we have to become very self-preserving and self-serving that we haven't been in the past. And, you know, like I listened to Mr. Kearney the other day say, well, our oil goes south, north-south. We also have to get it to go east-west. Who's gonna do that? Canadians. We have to build the roadways, we have to build the train systems, we have to build the planes, we have to get back to doing everything. So, from my point of view, I want to continue in the trades, but I also want to get into manufacturing, and that's where I'm heading.

SPEAKER_02 32:22

I see.

SPEAKER_01 32:23

Would you just stay in Canada? Are you also looking across the border as well to for expansion, George? Well, again, I was looking at going across the border just before Trump got elected, and things changed very quickly. And I'm just taking a wait and see attitude right now. I think long term, to answer your question, Gurmit, I don't have a choice. If I'm going to continue to grow, Canada is only so large, I have to go into the U.S. But I think we have to make sure that we maintain that Canadiana that is present here. You know, I take a lot of pride in being Canadian. I don't want to become an American, but I may have to deal with them. And when, you know, and to give you an example, when we're talking about the uh the tariffs, from my point of view, Canada made a huge mistake. If we we should have just said, okay, look, we agree with you. Let's go from a zero balance. And if we have to pay the Americans 10% tariff to keep that door open, it was a much cheaper endeavor to do that than to fight this battle for the next four years. It's gonna hurt far too many Canadians. And we did it, in my opinion, in arrogance. We don't need you. Well, we we all need each other. So will I go to the US in time? Yes, but not right now. I don't think the mentality, either in Canada or in the US, is very prone for that to happen. The Americans are are certainly becoming more insular, and so is Canada.

SPEAKER_02 33:53

Yeah. Yeah. How could you uh beat that, uh, George, to your point? I mean, they are driving distance from us. You know, they are 75, 80 percent, whatever number you want to believe, you know, our customers. And and uh you we're trying to ship it across the ocean with the ships and airplanes. How do you compete with the driving distance and delivering products and services where you have to you try to compete that with that 10, 15? You do that in Europe and trying to do uh on a ships and planes across the border. I mean, you the cost cannot be the same, just the logistic of it doesn't make it doesn't even uh doesn't even make sense.

SPEAKER_01 34:25

Yeah, that we're we're fighting that battle all the time right now, Gurmit. And the other battle is the timelines for construction. You know, because you're right, you used to place an order today out of Detroit, it was here in two days. Now you order it out of Spain and it doesn't get here for 12 to 14 weeks. You know, so that slows down the whole process. And yet the developers and the general contractors don't want to change their schedules. So it's becoming near impossible to meet all the needs of today, which again, the the only way in today's environment that I see it working is we have to manufacture more in our own backyard. And that's where the government needs to truly put the impetus and just don't give us words, give us actions.

SPEAKER_02 35:12

You know, and approval takes a lot of red tape, and approval takes much longer, I take it, right? That's what I've heard that you know it just takes too long for to get approval for anything.

Building a Business: Lessons Learned

SPEAKER_01 35:21

Yeah, it it's absolutely ridiculous. When it takes months and months to get approvals, and what they don't understand, the longer it takes, the more money it costs. And the more money it costs, they're just gonna pass it on to the uh to the consumer, and the consumer is gonna have to pay for it. And that's why construction costs are going crazy right now, because the products are going up faster than we can count. You know, it's since January, I've had the last count was 68 in price increases. Well, in construction, you're pricing something that may not happen for two to three years. So, how do you in your wildest imagination figure out what the price is going to be two to three years down the road? You know, for from my point of view, if you speed up that process, now it's a six-month, nine-month window. You can, you know, it helps it a lot, makes it a lot easier to figure that out. But if I'm trying to guess three, four years out, it it's near impossible. So the government has to speed up and get rid of a lot of the red tape.

SPEAKER_02 36:23

Yeah. Otherwise, how do you predict the price and how do you how do you how do you price that out for two years in advance? Everything changes in uh just a matter of time these days.

SPEAKER_01 36:31

Yeah, you know, it's um big things are not necessarily the best thing. You know, the bigger you get, the the harder it is. And I always use the the old phrase, it takes miles to turn the Titanic. Yeah, yeah. It takes seconds to change a canoe. So, you know, the bigger they make the government, the harder it is to function. And it's not just government, it's big business as well. We have to try to keep our size operational because you lose control. And when you lose control, you're done. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:05

You you lose competitive advantage over a lot of business as well, right? So that's when you start losing.

SPEAKER_01 37:09

Yeah. And it's, you know, I believe that I believe Canada's a great country. I believe, you know, we all want the same thing, but for whatever reason, we're in a ballistic tight mentality worldwide today that everybody wants to fight rather than get along. And I always go back to my kids. One of the things I tell them is when you're poor, you're getting along with your family like there's no tomorrow because you're pushing for the same thing. And as you start to get money, people start to drift away and they start to travel apart. They they don't come to Sunday dinner every week, and it just gets worse and worse and worse. There is a breakdown, and the Canadian philosophy has broken down so that we're no longer under that same philosophy. You know, it's if if you listen to the NDP today and you listen to the conservatives, it's like you find it hard to believe they're in the same country. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and somehow we get we got to bring it together where this we have the same voice. We may have a difference in how we get there, but you're you're gonna you're gonna want the same things in life. And we we just but we're not there.

SPEAKER_02 38:16

And we should be the richest country in the world, you know, by by capita, just by looking at the natural resources, what Canada has available. If you do it right, as you mentioned, that we all come together, we should be the richest country by capital.

SPEAKER_01 38:29

Yep, absolutely. You know, I'm I'm a very simple guy. I'd rather, I'd rather make love than fight. You know, I'm I'm not a fighter. And my one, another one of my philosophies is take care of your own backyard before you worry about somebody else's. You know, no disrespect, but from a Canadian point of view, what's going on in Iran is really none of my business. What's going on in the Ukraine and Russia is not my business. I want to worry about Canada within our perimeters. And if I have extra time, extra money, whatever it may be, then sure, we can help everybody else. But when I go to Vancouver in particular, and I see the drug problems we have out there, I find it very difficult to believe that that is Canada. We're known to take care of people, not to just leave them on the street and die. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:19

Very interesting. Yeah, Vancouver's love, a lot worse than you know what we've seen in Interior. So I know we have uh short time constraints, but when I to tap into your experience, George, you know, you you started a company in in 2006, you build it to that the massive level, you know, at where you are today. Any any difficult lesson you learn out of through that, anything you would do differently, I know what you've done if you just go back to 15, 20 years, anything you can share with the audience, people who are looking to build a business, anything you would do differently that you know would have speed you up or or uh you know uh get you there much faster.

SPEAKER_01 39:53

Yes. The main thing is, and it's very hard for me to say this openly, when I bought the company, I was a I'll call it a desk thumper. You know, you're doing it my way. This is what I want, just do it. And there was a lot of I'll say forceful thought process in the way I ran my business. And I don't know if it's because I'm getting older or it's because I'm getting smarter. You know, you're better off to talk to people, as I described earlier, and get them to either come along your wavelength or explain why you're wrong and they're right. And you have to give them that opportunity. So I've I take a lot of pride now that I listen to my staff far more than I did before. And as a consequence, I think our growth is becoming bigger and bigger and bigger because it's not just one guy now, it's a hundred guys or 500 guys or a thousand guys, however big your company is. Everybody has to feel like they matter. And my style at the beginning, I got from my father because that's the way he ran his business, is totally wrong, at least for this environment. Very interesting.

SPEAKER_02 41:05

Thank you for sharing that. You know, one thing, one thing I'd say, you know, you you've gone through the journey. I'm very, very early on in a business, George. But what I what I learned from for one of the one of the consultants recently is business has an inflection point. You know, what the challenge is you have on a five million, it's a 10 million is different, challenge, 50 billion is different, 100 million is different. It's almost like you have to become a different person to get over those challenges. Is that true from your experience, or is it something that just I'm just looking into it?

Starting vs. Buying a Business

SPEAKER_01 41:31

No, absolutely, Gurme. I'm gonna say it's worse than that. You know, I have a philosophy. You you have to be a man of a thousand hats and a thousand faces. And depending on who you're talking to or what you're doing, you wear a different hat and have a different face on you. And there are plateaus, you know, it's the hardest plateau, quite honestly, is a startup. Trying to get it to that first million dollars is extremely difficult. And then the next stage, going from a million to three, maybe to five million is is more difficult, but it's it's not crazy. And as you get bigger, the problem becomes not so much that you're incapable, it's because you can't find the people to do it. And so the biggest issue is when you're doing these plateaus, is to surround yourself with the proper people. You know, building a business, I've always said this is fairly simple. You know, you'll learn it in accounting 101, really. But I mean, what we don't learn is how to get people to fall into your belief system and grow something that you have this vision for. So your plateaus that you're gonna have is trying to understand everything that's going on around you and wearing those thousand hats and faces so that you can deal with everybody the way they want to be dealt with, so that your business will continue to prosper.

SPEAKER_02 42:52

Hmm. Yeah, that that seems to be key that way, you know, your time invested on a people and and uh bringing that everybody on the same page and and to your uh you know, uh vision, um, so they can they can function and they can excel in the vision. I think a lot of successful business, this is where they spend most time on, you know, all that operational stuff, a lot of people get carried away. They they do a little nitty-gritty stuff, but that isn't give you as much return. But this is this is a key element for any business to grow. And what I'm hearing for a lot of uh experts or people who run a business, this is where you want to invest most of your time.

SPEAKER_01 43:24

Yeah, the the the majority of businesses in Canada that are all small or medium-sized, they're not very big corporations. And the CEO always sets the rules. And that that's a good thing, but it's also a bad thing. And you know, one of the things that people have to understand is exactly what I mentioned earlier is we have to mentor our knowledge to the people around us. Get out of doing the day to day business, and that's very difficult for an owner entrepreneur. He wants hands on, he wants full control. And it's very difficult to sit back and Say, okay, tell me what you think, and I'll say yes or no. But you have to give them the opportunity, and that's very, very difficult for an entrepreneur.

SPEAKER_02 44:09

Yeah. Yeah, because they came from those trades, most of them when they start a business. So what to your point, uh George, I want to ask you, you know, two more questions now, and then then they'll wrap it up. So, first one is if you're in the Canadian market today, because there's so many businesses in Canada, as you mentioned, 93, 92 percent business are small business, and and these are business owners above age 60. So if you had an opportunity to start a business, would you start a brand new business or would you just buy a business to run with it? Because you know, there's there's no shortage of businesses in Canada. It's simply just a vision to build the businesses. That seems to be the shortage. So, which would do you prefer that you would start something brand new, something from scratch, so you have the vision, or would you just buy something and run with it?

Mindset for Success in Business

SPEAKER_01 44:50

Well, I you know, I don't think there's a right or wrong way, in all honesty, Gurmit. I've done both, both have been prosperous. It really does come down to if you can find the right business that is something that you're passionate about and ever and the stars align, then sure, go ahead and buy it. But a lot of times when you when the new generation has different philosophies, different outlooks on what they want in life, and they don't have a choice but to start something from from new. And it's, you know, I think you can be very successful both ways. And if it's an established industry like construction, then it's very difficult to start your own. You know, it's because you're you're people want reputation, they want longevity, they want to know that you're you're gonna be there in six months. When in construction, if you if you're a no-name, people go, well, I don't even know if he's gonna finish the job. So yeah, he might be a little bit cheaper, but I'm gonna go with somebody that's got a track record. So it really does depend on the business you want to get into. You know, like we're starting one right now that is brand new. We found a technology in Europe and we're gonna bring it over to North America and start a brand new business with that technology. So am I afraid that you know someone else is gonna be there? No, but no one is doing this in Canada. So I have no choice but to start it from brand new. And, you know, if it's successful, hooray for me. If not, I took a chance and I lost. But, you know, everything I do, I I try to look what my competition is going to be like in the marketplace. And and to to even go further than that to answer your question. When I bought Bothwell, my my background was electrical. And everybody in the industry said, you're not gonna make it, you don't know anything about roofing. And I'll I I said the same thing to every last person that said that to me. You're right. I don't know roofing, but I understand business very well. And you know, it you have to look at yourself internally. What are you good at? What do you feel you're good at? How what are you gonna need when you when you start the business? Or do you need assistance? You know, and if if you can do a business on your own and get it going, by all means do it. You you feel much better that way because I created it. However, once you buy a company, the same thing can happen, but not instantaneously. You know, it's always the old owner's business until you you prove yourself that you know you can take it to another level. And so I'm not gonna say one is better than the other. I've done both, and I think both are very possible in today's market. Very interesting.

SPEAKER_02 47:25

You you know, if taking a risk, uh George, or or or uh taking on a business, it's very natural to you. You know, did you have to build this skill set or was it something that you inherited from your family? You know, how did you develop this skill set that that you you know you you take opportunity, you read them right, and and you take a risk on it, and and you commit 100% to to you know excel these businesses. How did you learn the skill set? Was that something you have to build over the time, or was it something from family?

SPEAKER_01 47:53

Both again, and I'm not trying to steer you wrong here, but uh I've always been very independent. I've always believed in myself to the nth degree. So you know, it was something that was inherently in me. But I found the more money I had, the more risk I would take. And a lot of people go the exact opposite. They're afraid to lose what they've got. And I've always had the philosophy I can do it once, I can do it twice. So I'm not afraid to lose what I've already got. And I think that's something that is very beneficial for me. Can I teach that to people? I don't believe so. I think you've already got it or you don't, because risk can drive people crazy. You know, if somebody's not paying their bills to me, I can still have a good night's sleep. I don't like what's going on, but I can still sleep. If I gave it on on to my wife for argument's sake, she she wouldn't be able to sleep. She should be up, she'd be knocking on the guy's door. And you know, some people are made for it and some aren't. You know, what you are or what anybody else is, only you know.

unknown 49:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:02

If you hold on to yesterday's money, you never get to the opportunity to the tomorrow. That's that's what I've I learned from my parents. Interesting. One last word. Uh, you know, if you if somebody started a business, young people they they you know, trying to build a business. Any word of advice, what can they do? You know, definitely to build their mindset, they gotta build the companies, they gotta build people. Any any word of advice you would like to share with the younger people coming out of university colleges trying to build a business?

SPEAKER_01 49:27

Yeah, it's um and and and again, I'm gonna sound very detrimental when I say this, but I'm not trying to be negative, I'm trying to be positive and help them. The the kids that come out of school do not have the determination to work a 20-hour day. And you know, nobody's gonna give you anything. Um, even though the schools tell you that everybody owes you stuff, they don't. And when you get out of school, the people that truly work hard at what they do always succeed. The people that just go in as a job very rarely succeed. You know, it's I'm a firm believer, my dad taught me you get out of something, what you put into it. And I look at my whole company, 80% of it are clock watchers. They go in at eight, go home at five. Whereas the guys that have prospered in my business, there is no time clock. They're working 24 hours a day. We're the service business, we're a service industry. Our job is to pick up the phone when somebody wants us. And if you're not prepared to do that, then get out of the business.

SPEAKER_02 50:34

Yeah. And those 20% people probably turn everything around for a business, right? The one people who would excel, even though it's not a big number, but they're the one who move the business forward wherever it needs to go.

SPEAKER_01 50:44

Correct. They understand service. Whatever the client wants, somehow we're gonna do it. And that's, you know, it's you know, you can't say, well, I really don't feel like doing that today. Yeah, you know, it's it's it's like working out. I don't want to work out every day, but I have to do it. You know, I don't want to go to work every day, but I have to do it. And once your mindset is there that I have to put into it what it takes, whether it be eight hours, 12 hours, 14 hours, I'm gonna do it. And the younger generation has to learn, we don't have a job to give you what you want. You have a job to create what you want.

SPEAKER_02 51:19

Yeah, yeah. Mindset is the biggest challenge. You know, if they come with the right mindset, they can definitely excel. Absolutely. Yeah, very interesting, George. I, you know, you know, as there's so much wisdom and so much experience behind you know building a business. I can I can talk to you all day and keep learning from you, but you know, I think I want to respect your time as well. But you've been very generous with the time. Thank you so much for your time. And definitely I'm gonna look forward to watching you excel on a manufacturing and whether it's a glass business, all your opportunities that you're taking on. I'm gonna watch closely. Kudos to your success. Thank you so much for time. It was a pleasure talking to you.

SPEAKER_01 51:52

Thank you very much, Germita. It was a pleasure talking to you. Take care of yourself and the best of luck in your new endeavors. All right, thank you. Cheers.